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Good Riddance DE and I welcome WHS2011


edamiga1
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DE - Good Riddance and I will be moving to WHS2011.

 

I have been using WHS for almost 3 years and am not sure how I could live without it. I have 9TB of available Storage spread across 9 drives that range from 750MB to 2 TB. I just finished virtualizing the entire environment onto Hyper-V Core and use the drive pass through feature to get the performance and DE functionality. I use the folder duplication, but I also do offsite backups of my data. I take backups seriously and as you can see DE was something I used a lot, and I am a "trud WHS user", but...

 

DE was a great idea, but the implementation left a lot to be desired. Below are my biggest issue with DE and reasons why I will not miss it and do not need it.

The biggest issue I have with DE is that peformance and stuttering when streaming HD movies. The demigrator.exe service was always taking up CPU cycles even when I hadn't added a file to the server in over a day. It was too much black magic. I would expect it to run when I added files to a duplicated folder and only then. If it detected that I needed to move files to balance my hardrives then I should be allowed to specify when it should do this or better yet it should detect when I am accessing data and not run at that time. For the majority of my data I will automate the backup feature to duplicate those files I do not want to lose, to drives that are "Green/Inexpensive" once a day. This will also allow the drives to spin down, which I don't think my current WHS ever does. I will also do my weekly offsite backups to removeable drives, so I will be covered.

The second biggest issue I had is that I had no idea where the files were physically. Yes I know that this is the whole purpose, but when you cannot afford to duplicate all your files, I have HD movies in the 40GB range, it was a pain when something went wrong. Data just disappered and you had to spend time restoring from offsite backups. I could never find any pattern on how they put files on harddrives. I can now put my HD movies on Black drives, so I can get lots of HD streams off of them simultaneously and I can put my files on Green drives, that have no where near the performance requirements of my video streams.

Performance. Yes I know I already mentioned this, but I can now control and get the performance I have to have. I can RAID WD Black drives or Raptor drives to get any level of video performance that I need. If I want I can raid SSD drives for uber performance. The point is I now have the control that I have been wanting. If I want the flexibility of DE then I will get a Drobo and connect it through USB3, but I won't.

Seperation of OS and data. Why WHS v1 did not allow this is beyond me. I have been setting up my PCs this way for decades, and yes I mean decades, circa late 80s. When I had to virtualize my WHS v1 I had to have the host drive be 130GB, because that was the size of the drive I started with. The fact that DE and OS were all on the same C drive was not a good idea.

There are other minor reasons, but I do not need to go on. I think if Microsoft could have addressed the issue with DE above and given me the flexibility of having different storage pools for performance, the I would be elated, but I understand their path forward and I do not see them abandoning this area, especially with the two additional servers that are basically the same platform and just different skus. I think they tried to make the improvements mentioned above, but they could just not get it to work, so they made the right decision.

 

To conclude, I have enjoyed my time with DE and WHS V1, but after all is said and done the move to 64bit, integrated media streaming, flexible folder storage, Windows 2008 R2 code base, integrated phone, and powerful .NET based Add-in platform, I will be moving to WHS 2011 as soon as it goes RTM. "So long WHS V1 and thanks for all the fish..."

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Do I understand you right when you say using drive passthrough, you can put as many drives as you want and they can all be different sizes and it would appear to be one drive in the server? If yes, whats the catch. That solution seems too easy.

 

 

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That is not what I meant to say. I was referring to Hyper-V drive pass through. They appear as seperate drives to the OS, but WHS V1 then does the DE magic and turns it into a single drive. With WHS 2011 they will all be seperate drives, so no more magic but I can manage this.

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That is not what I meant to say. I was referring to Hyper-V drive pass through. They appear as seperate drives to the OS, but WHS V1 then does the DE magic and turns it into a single drive. With WHS 2011 they will all be seperate drives, so no more magic but I can manage this.

 

 

I understand that, but when you use the drive pass through in hyper-v, can you add a 10 TB VD if you have 6-2TB HDD's in the hyper-v machine (I used 6 instead of 5 due to OS requirements will eat away at total capacity available.).

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I am not sure I understand your question. drive pass through in hyper-v allows you to access the physical harddrive, just like it was attached to a physical machines. In my case I have 8 physical drives that I pass through to my virtual machines just like I had my physical machine. This is what allowed me to disk2virtual my physcial home server and not have to change anything else. I do not use the .vhd functionality except for my system drive, all other drives are straight pass throughs to the virual O/S of my home server.

 

The only way I would know how to have a 10TB drive would be to use raid to create one and then in theory you could pass through this directly to the virtual home server. You could create a 10TB VHD, but I think this might be a little risky, and not sure how the RAID would handle the single vhd file.

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I am not sure I understand your question. drive pass through in hyper-v allows you to access the physical harddrive, just like it was attached to a physical machines. In my case I have 8 physical drives that I pass through to my virtual machines just like I had my physical machine. This is what allowed me to disk2virtual my physcial home server and not have to change anything else. I do not use the .vhd functionality except for my system drive, all other drives are straight pass throughs to the virual O/S of my home server.

 

The only way I would know how to have a 10TB drive would be to use raid to create one and then in theory you could pass through this directly to the virtual home server. You could create a 10TB VHD, but I think this might be a little risky, and not sure how the RAID would handle the single vhd file.

 

 

I was asking it wrong. I was trying to ask what you answered in the last paragraph. Obviously disk pass through will pass it through the same size as the actual drive. I guess this is what happens when you jump back and forth from work and play.

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I do not get why on earth you would not have went with a different server or raid in the 1st place if you are so happy to see DE go. I mean really why not just use the type of things you talk about with Windows 7, or better yet pick up a Dell or Super Micro storage server, obviously if you can run all that stuff you would have no problems setting up AD and backups on your HOME network.

 

If you want to run RAID and other enterprise hardware and software solutions, there are far, far better alternatives both in the Windows and Linux world than WHS was ever meant to be, why you would want to run WHS would to me seem to be more of a because I can than a because it is the best solution answer.

 

There simply is nothing bright coming out for "HOME" users in WHS 2011 worth fighting for.

 

Even if this product actually ever makes it to market, If WHS v1 never took, WHS 2011 as no hope at all.

Edited by talex
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Guest no-control

I do not get why on earth you would not have went with a different server or raid in the 1st place if you are so happy to see DE go. I mean really why not just use the type of things you talk about with Windows 7, or better yet pick up a Dell or Super Micro storage server, obviously if you can run all that stuff you would have no problems setting up AD and backups on your HOME network.

 

If you want to run RAID and other enterprise hardware and software solutions, there are far, far better alternatives both in the Windows and Linux world than WHS was ever meant to be, why you would want to run WHS would to me seem to be more of a because I can than a because it is the best solution answer.

 

There simply is nothing bright coming out for "HOME" users in WHS 2011 worth fighting for.

 

Even if this product actually ever makes it to market, If WHS v1 never took, WHS 2011 as no hope at all.

 

 

 

Gotta strongly disagree with you there. AT THE TIME WHSv1 came out it was the best solution for client backup, web sharing and expandability for the price. Not to mention capacity:cost ratio was still pretty high (1TB drives were $200). So DE made sense. You could mitigate the cost of entry by recycling and pooling various older hdds. Free *nix solutions weren't very good at any of this and MS Server solutions are not cheap.

 

FFWD to today and sure there are some decent free alternatives. As well as some pricey ones. But if having DE go away means I can have a rock solid enterprise grade software package without the enterprise cost for my HOME. Great I'll buy it for my HOME in a heartbeat. If this new o/s is now more aligned with enterprise (SBS WS08R2) and I can use add-ins that are actually useful. I'll pay for them, especially if I got the o/s for dirt cheap. If it means I don't have to learn a new environment and if feels and reacts like I would expect from a windows product. Even better. And to top it off I'll have better and faster access to my data...#$$@ yeah!

 

I have been very public about my joy to see DE leave the landscape. I think it adds a level of complication and failure that is very difficult for an enthusiast to troubleshoot. Capacities have a much much better cost ratio now and most users do not exceed 3 TB and most enthusiasts rarely exceed 6 TB. Controllers have also come way down in cast as well. Making an enterprise set up scaled down for the home quite achievable and Troubleshooting a RAID is brain dead easy as is the setup. There is a very narrow viewpoint in the WHS community and to continue lauding a dead, defunct, and broken technology is what will kill WHS ultimately. It's the DIY people that need to get over it and move on to keep this type of affordable software.

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Bring on WHS2011!!! Whilst I like the Drive Extender feature in V1 I'm not sad it's gone. I appreciate it provides huge benefit for guys with very large storage requirements and so use it to span multiple drives but for moderate storage needs like mine (4TB) its no big deal. Duplication was handy but a scheduled batch job that copies my data to another drive does the job just as well and provides more transparency. I'll be moving to WHS2011 once it RTMs to make use of the up to date platform and will be able to use my server for many different things without worrying whether the software I've installed will play nicely with DE or not.

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Gotta strongly disagree with you there. AT THE TIME WHSv1 came out it was the best solution for client backup, web sharing and expandability for the price. Not to mention capacity:cost ratio was still pretty high (1TB drives were $200). So DE made sense. You could mitigate the cost of entry by recycling and pooling various older hdds. Free *nix solutions weren't very good at any of this and MS Server solutions are not cheap.

 

FFWD to today and sure there are some decent free alternatives. As well as some pricey ones. But if having DE go away means I can have a rock solid enterprise grade software package without the enterprise cost for my HOME. Great I'll buy it for my HOME in a heartbeat. If this new o/s is now more aligned with enterprise (SBS WS08R2) and I can use add-ins that are actually useful. I'll pay for them, especially if I got the o/s for dirt cheap. If it means I don't have to learn a new environment and if feels and reacts like I would expect from a windows product. Even better. And to top it off I'll have better and faster access to my data...#$$@ yeah!

 

I have been very public about my joy to see DE leave the landscape. I think it adds a level of complication and failure that is very difficult for an enthusiast to troubleshoot. Capacities have a much much better cost ratio now and most users do not exceed 3 TB and most enthusiasts rarely exceed 6 TB. Controllers have also come way down in cast as well. Making an enterprise set up scaled down for the home quite achievable and Troubleshooting a RAID is brain dead easy as is the setup. There is a very narrow viewpoint in the WHS community and to continue lauding a dead, defunct, and broken technology is what will kill WHS ultimately. It's the DIY people that need to get over it and move on to keep this type of affordable software.

 

 

So your entire argument is that you are too cheap to buy a real server product, so you want the home product to change to allow enterprise ability at a home price, then you blame home users for the demise of the product... makes no sense to me at all. MS should have went with several sku's, a true home sku with DE, a premium sku without de for home users who prefer raid (although this could have been done all along) and an enterprise sku for people in your situation who do not want to pay big bucks but want to run enterprise apps and who do not want to sign up for one of MS's many programs that could land you server standard or web on the cheap. If I was MS I would release this but ban any enterprise package from running on it at all, they do this with other server products and it would protect them from people running this product in ways a home product was not intended to run, No SQL, no Exchange... notta enterprise at all, I would leave all that to SBS.

 

Frankly does not matter to me, I won't be using V2 at this point anyways. I also do not agree that DE was dead, defunct and broken in V1, it needed some tweaking, but you can simply look around the forums and clearly see many, many users with V1 were very happy with it. As far as it's the DIY people that need to get over it, what feature could they rip out that you like which would make you pissed off enough not to want it, again you sound like all the folks that are not happy with the removal of DE should not what buy a product they do not want so that you do not have to spend extra on server software that was designed with what you want in mind and already exists. To each thier own but I simply do not see your arguments making sense at all. On V1 you could run raid and simply not use the pool with those drives and setup shares on your raid arrays, worked just fine for me. Also MS own marketing - protect, connect organize and grow is now blown as the OS does little for protect and grow, that is left up to the end user in this latest incarnation, the OS does nothing to aid you with that "out of the box".

 

So in the end if people like me ruin the product for others who do not know how to achive what they want using software that was targeted toward the things they want to do, it is simply no sweat off my back at all and obviously no cost out of my pocket either.

Edited by talex
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