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Al_Borges

Goodbye to Windows 10 as a Homeserver

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JackoUK

"I migrated off WHS2011, Storage is on a Drobo 5N ..."

More expensive than a typical NAS!

 

"Splitting up storage and ..."

That's the point, surely?

If you separate out storage what else does the storage box have to do other than expose a shared file system over GBe?

OK, keep it secure ... so RAID, Drivepool, ... synchronisation, whatever.

That does not require a powerful CPU or fast disk ... heck you want low power (electrical) devices!

In a consumer setting most of the data is cold. The only time the network would come under any pressure is if 4 people wanted a to view a different video at the same time.

So there might be delay one day, deal with it already! We are not on a 99.999 enterprise service level contract.

 

" ... it is difficult to justify the cost of Server 2016 for home use."

I could replace all 4 of my Microservers for the cost a single Windows Server license!

 

Of course you can always spend money just for the hell of it, or if you are that 1 in a million who wants to spend money to have no chance of losing your data.

Me - I'd buy the film again - or then again probably not.

Most likely when I'm dead my relatives will wipe all the disks before flogging the kit!!

 

The small amount of data I really want to keep ... is secured on 2 machines and Onedrive.

Edited by JackoUK

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JackoUK

"I'm still on WHS2011 & hopeful that something else will shake out in the future."

 

A forlorn hope I fear.

It would be interesting to know how big a market MSFT estimated for WHS before developing the product.

Far too niche a market in my opinion ... and certainly orders of magnitude below that which might divert a company of MSFT's size's attention.

I think they would have been better served (served - get it?) by building storage functionality into an SKU of Windows ... PRO say.

A completely separate SKU with a new file system ... charged at a premium rate in cahoots with HP hardware ... YUK.

How much better value is GEN8 Microserver with Windows 10!!

MSFT presumably came to this conclusion too ... resulting in STORAGE SPACES.

And to advance along the lines of ZFS ... ReFS.

 

Having looked at the architecture of SS I think it will work best in a 9 disk system: 1 OS and apps. and a 4 column mirror.

That way rebuilding of a failed disk will happen 3 times faster since all the surviving disks are accessed at once. That's the weakness of RAID with increasingly large disks - the rebuild time.

Unfortunately that's a high entry point ... but of course SS is primarily an enterprise design.

 

MSFT effectively exited the home storage market when it screwed up the Onedrive/Office subscription combo ...

... again we can only conclude that MSFT miscalculated the cost of the storage component.

 

My only hope rests with the rumoured Windows Cloud SKU.

This sounds like a free W10 version where only MSFT STORE apps are allowed.

As long as it exposes shared file systems ... then it is on any new storage servers I might build in future.

If it does not have remote access then its over to the free version of TEAMVIEWER.

Providing of course it is not an OEM only release.

 

On the large scale I think you can see where MSFT are going by the Kepler 47 project at:

https://www.onmsft.com/news/microsoft-stuffs-20tb-storage-and-50gb-memory-into-two-servers-would-fit-in-a-carry-on-bag

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JackoUK

"I wish Synology came out with a software only offer, I would gladly pay few hundred dollars for it."

 

I think the same about MSFT operating systems:

- I would pay to have a remote access component without the rest of the PRO features: the upgrade cost from HOME to PRO is huge

- similarly I would pay to have ReFS only

 

Guess it would be difficult to administer and subject to abuse.

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JackoUK

"If all you need is a NAS pretty much anything will work for you."

 

I agree strongly with you, as you can see from previous comments ... but ...

... I think there is huge value in some people - with their money/expertise :-)  - pushing the boundaries to see what is possible.

 

Even if 'the grand plan' does not work for you specifically, some part of it may prove to be very useful.

So I keep coming back here.

 

Irritating at times ... but particularly useful to have a proper argument with someone who disagrees with your point of view.

I have been known to be wrong on some occasions ;-)

Edited by JackoUK

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itGeeks

"Well,  I've stopped using Windows 10 Home as my home server been using W8/W10  as a replacement for WHS2.0  for several years now but the constant upgrade cycle seems to break something every couple of weeks or so."

 

Disclaimer. I am wall-to-wall W10Pro: DELL 9200 (2007), VOSTRO 430 (2011), SAMSUNG RF511 (2012), 4 x HP Microservers from the earliest model to the newest always at the lowest spec., 2x LINX 1010 tablets.

 

Unusually, I find myself in the blue corner defending MSFT here. The only problem I've had with Windows was when HP screwed up the W8 network driver so W8.1 wouldn't install..

 

I like PRO for remote access ... but if I was not rolling over W7 licenses with cheap upgrades to W8 and then free to W10 I would probably have looked elsewhere.

I have not availed myself of the installation delay option, not seen any forced settings changes, if I miss a maintenance checkpoint Windows tells me to restart ... only the ads to purchase Office 2016 annoy me ... and I'm too lazy to stop them recurring.

 

But that's just me ... the reason MSFT has increasingly gone for the Insider programme and progressive roll-outs is surely to field compatibility problems with the gazillions of hardware variants in the installed base.

 

I also think "why buy an expensive NAS when you can have a cheap general purpose computer?" (The HP MS GEN 8 hovers around £120 here in the UK.)

If the only thing your after is file storage/share then I would agree, For me I was after much more then simple file storage and share. Synology NAS gives me 'file syncing', 'remote backup' for free, mobile apps, Tremendous insight into whats going on with my storage and device, And a plethora of other things and the best part is it just works, The updates don't brake the NAS every time I turn around, The file restores work every time. I coud rite a book here as to y I use a Synology over something else like FreeNAS but I think you get the point.

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ShadowPeo

Like Jacko stated, I am all for people with the money and the time trying things out, and I have done more than my fair share of this. However these days for myself and my families requirements it comes down really to one thing with NAS vs Server at home; I deal with enough server shit during the day, the last thing I want to do is come home and have to fix something here. Hence these days I tend to go for the appliance model.

 

Do not get me wrong I still use a server or two around the place, sometimes a NAS just cannot compete with the raw horsepower you can get from a server, but for many tasks, it can achieve what is needed. These days I am mostly utilising VM's but I am rapidly migrating to Docker containers for many things. I do not care about the software when the configs and data are backed up, the software is a quick and easy rebuild with docker (well nothings quick with the crap that passes for an internet connection in my little corner, but you know what I mean)

 

Now if someone could just work out how to run those few Apple services I need/want in a docker container I would be a very happy person. Damn Apple and their "only on our hardware" licencing policy. When your "server" is less powerful than most people's bloody desktops it's a damned joke.

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JackoUK

"Synology NAS gives me 'file syncing', 'remote backup' for free​ ..."

 

I suggested a Powershell -NoCloudData OneDrive option via the Windows Insider programme.

When enabled the user's OneDrive files in question are not copied to the MSFT cloud, they just remain ....

... well wherever the user wants them.

The index of those files is still maintained in the MSFT cloud.

The ideas behind this change are:

 

- privacy: no data permanently in the cloud (not a real concern for me)

- automatic storage syncing: the user can control on a per machine basis which files are resident on a machine. He can thus implement a 2nd copy ... on a remote site if he so chooses ... or separate filesystems into audio, video, apps, docs, ...on different machines

 

Implementing this change would of course make MSFT look more like a charity than a business ;-)

Not holding out much hope then I looked at bittorrentsync.

That worked ... but it didn't play well with user accounts.

I suggested to the owners that they could take some of what MSFT had intended as their OneDrive business if bittorrent sync was modified.

I must revisit them since the company has been renamed resilio. Maybe they have made some enhancements.

Probably charging money :-(

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Trig0r

I went from NAS to server when my storage (and other) requirements outgrew what I was running..

 

I went from an NT Workstation full tower case (had slowly gone from normal tower to full as I added more drives) to a Buffalo, to 2 Buffalo's to a Gen7, then to a Gen8 and now Frank.

I've played with QNAP's from 2, 4 and 12 bay variants as well as some cheapy units, and for me losing the flexibility and ease of a Windows based system maketh no sense...

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Al_Borges

What am I missing?

If all you need is a nas pretty much anything will work for you.

Why did you have to go with qnap?

 

you are right -  Freenas/unraid et al would all work 

 

but I wanted a quick turnkey solution -   I was also  interested in a good App Store that had easy to install, supported Apps

I  tested both unraid and freenas a couple of years ago and was not happy with the way they handled apps/extensions

 

based on what I saw at the homeserver show meetups first hand -  it was a close decision between QNAP and Synology

 

but in the end,  the HDMI port  put me over the top -  I have a long HDMI cable strung from my server room ( okay, utility/furnace room)  into my adjacent workshop hooked into a tv

voila instant plex client 

 

Freenas should have worked for you just fine. Or omv or even unraid.

Not only that, it would have worked much better on the same hardware you run Windows 10 on.

So what was your thoughts and decisions process?

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

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MGD9000

I've been running xpenology for 2 years now and will never go back to anything else. Grab a old computer and install. Your up and running in 10 minutes. Also the forum will help out if you have questions. http://xpenology.me/

 

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

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