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Windows Server 2016 Essentials

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asdaHP

Hi,

Can someone check or known if server 2016 essentials has deduplication and is this something practically useful for a home server especially if you are backing up multiple win 10/7 pcs? 2012 r2 essentials did not have dedup (standard and data center versions did). If it is in server 16 essentials, that would be another benefit (i think :) ). Oh and if it is similar to 12 r2, to look for dedup, open server manager, and under server roles, expand file and storage services, then file and iscsi services, there should be a listing called data deduplication. My 12 r2 essentials does not have option. Thanks

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Jason

Not sure why I thought WSE12R2 had single file instance across client backups? Does it not?

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Drashna Jaelre

Hi,

Can someone check or known if server 2016 essentials has deduplication and is this something practically useful for a home server especially if you are backing up multiple win 10/7 pcs? 2012 r2 essentials did not have dedup (standard and data center versions did). If it is in server 16 essentials, that would be another benefit (i think :) ). Oh and if it is similar to 12 r2, to look for dedup, open server manager, and under server roles, expand file and storage services, then file and iscsi services, there should be a listing called data deduplication. My 12 r2 essentials does not have option. Thanks

The data deduplication role is limited to Standard/Datacenter SKUs. 

 

It's one of the few things that differentiates the different versions. 

 

Not sure why I thought WSE12R2 had single file instance across client backups? Does it not?

 

the Backup engine does use deduplication, but that's because it's a database, rather than a file system.  

 

I believe he's referring to the file system feature. 

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asdaHP

The data deduplication role is limited to Standard/Datacenter SKUs. 

 

It's one of the few things that differentiates the different versions. 

 

Thank u as always for getting back. So i guess the same limitation in 2012 r2 and 2016!! Oh well i guess i can stick with 12 r2, extended support is at least till 2023.

 

By the way, i see only mention of the essentials versions in all the home server forums (such as this one and the wegotserved ones). Is it much harder to run 2012 r2/2016 standard with the essentials experience/role?...I suppose i need separate licenses for the client pcs in addition? Is there much more that I have to plan or bargain for? Just asking, since i have no server admin experience and just running a home server. My only experience before this was with the wonderful HP ex 490!!

 

 

 

 

 

the Backup engine does use deduplication, but that's because it's a database, rather than a file system.  

 

Didnt know that. Can you point me to more info on single file instance on client backups? Does that mean it effectively does reduce storage if I am backing up multiple computers? On a related note, was that feature there in the older WHS v1?

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Drashna Jaelre

you can run the Essentials Experience role on Standard/Datacenter.  The caveat is that these SKUs "require" User CALs, which are $40/each.

 

Otherwise, it works just the same. 

 

 

As for the backups, the reason it can take a long while for them to complete isn't due to transferring data, but comparing data  and the like.  The engine itself uses deduplication so it's not storing the same data repeatedly.  

And yes, the deduplication (also referred to as "single instance storage") feature of the client backups has been present since WHSv1. 

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nrf

you can run the Essentials Experience role on Standard/Datacenter.  The caveat is that these SKUs "require" User CALs, which are $40/each.

 

require definitely goes in quotes, as I have never actually been 'required' to have cals for multipoint server (you can read on microsoft's site how to fake them) or 2012r2 datacenter + EE. on the other hand I have never set up remote access via the web

 

as always ymmv 

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asdaHP

 

 

As for the backups, the reason it can take a long while for them to complete isn't due to transferring data, but comparing data  and the like.  The engine itself uses deduplication so it's not storing the same data repeatedly.  

And yes, the deduplication (also referred to as "single instance storage") feature of the client backups has been present since WHSv1. 

Thanks. All this while I thought the reason the client backups took a while was that the software was comparing for changes between one days backup files and the next days and only backing up the changes.

 

To confirm what you said, does that mean that the backup software compares one clients backup with another clients? So my backing up 4 win 10 pcs is actually taking less space in my server than if they were 4 different servers (theoretically)?

 

 

 

you can run the Essentials Experience role on Standard/Datacenter.  The caveat is that these SKUs "require" User CALs, which are $40/each.

 

Otherwise, it works just the same. 

Ok, excellent. I was more worried about server management skills that were needed over and above what the essentials versions requires to run client backups and data storage etc. By the way, as a home server, how much saving do you or others find with the deduplication option (here i am referring to feature that you said is available only in standard and datacenter versions). I am wondering if there is that much of a benefit if most of my files are photos, videos, some documents, pdfs. I am not running a VM.

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Drashna Jaelre

require definitely goes in quotes, as I have never actually been 'required' to have cals for multipoint server (you can read on microsoft's site how to fake them) or 2012r2 datacenter + EE. on the other hand I have never set up remote access via the web

 

as always ymmv 

 

Yes, the "requires" is in quotes, intentionally, actually.

 

Legally, yes, you are actually *required* to have the correct number of User CALs.  However, there is no installation or the like required of them, and Windows doesn't "check". 

 

However, if you're doing this for a business, and Microsfot audits them, you're in deep shit. 

 

 

If you're using MSDN, then there shouldn't be any issues, depending.

 

 

 

Thanks. All this while I thought the reason the client backups took a while was that the software was comparing for changes between one days backup files and the next days and only backing up the changes.

 

To confirm what you said, does that mean that the backup software compares one clients backup with another clients? So my backing up 4 win 10 pcs is actually taking less space in my server than if they were 4 different servers (theoretically)?

 

 

Yes, the backup engine is both incremental (only backs up changes), and it deduplicates data between systems. 

 

This is why it's super critical to have a good, reliably array or the storage (and why Covecube/StableBit recommends duplicated to be enabled for the Client Backup Database when it resides on the Pool).  If one file is lost, it can corrupt a good chunk of the database.

 

 

 

Ok, excellent. I was more worried about server management skills that were needed over and above what the essentials versions requires to run client backups and data storage etc. By the way, as a home server, how much saving do you or others find with the deduplication option (here i am referring to feature that you said is available only in standard and datacenter versions). I am wondering if there is that much of a benefit if most of my files are photos, videos, some documents, pdfs. I am not running a VM.

 

 

Server management skills aren't really needed.  Server management is pretty easy in Windows Server 2012 and up.  Microsoft has made it pretty simple, even without the Dashboard.   Web stuff is definitely easier, but that's the main thing. And the lack/presense of a backup solution. 

 

As for the deduplication savings?  Microsoft publishes this information, and they're pretty accurate. 

 

https://technet.microsoft.com/windows-server-docs/storage/data-deduplication/overview

 

More than likely, 50-60% savings.   I get mid 70% range for my VMs (HyperV, running Windows Home Server v1, Vista, Server 2008 and up, for both x86 and x64 architectures, plus some additional VMs). 

 

So these stats are pretty on point.

 

Also, check out: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh831700(v=ws.11).aspx#BKMK_Step2

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nrf

My only regret in moving from whs2011 to 2012r2+ee is that the bare metal restore takes so much longer with the new software. otherwise, neither of them are difficult to administer. The only aggravation I experience these days is for a win10 major upgrade (and many insider upgrades so I stopped with that) you have to re-join to the server. too bad ms could not be more considerate in that regard.

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asdaHP

 

As for the deduplication savings?  Microsoft publishes this information, and they're pretty accurate. 

 

https://technet.microsoft.com/windows-server-docs/storage/data-deduplication/overview

 

More than likely, 50-60% savings.   I get mid 70% range for my VMs (HyperV, running Windows Home Server v1, Vista, Server 2008 and up, for both x86 and x64 architectures, plus some additional VMs). 

 

So these stats are pretty on point.

 

Also, check out: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh831700(v=ws.11).aspx#BKMK_Step2

Thanks. It is interesting that microsoft says "(DDPEval.exe) is automatically installed to the \Windows\System32\ directory. This tool can be copied from any server running Windows Server 2012 R2 or Windows Server 2012 to systems running Windows Server 2012, Windows Server 2008 R2, or Windows 7." It sounds like a very good exercise to see if dedup makes sense before activating it. Unfortunately no where do i see a copy of this ddpeval.exe on microsoft hosted sites!! So to get the software which microsoft says u can copy to other computers, you need to first have a standard server 2012 working. Argh. Why couldnt they have a copy of this file for people to at least test out.

 

 

My only regret in moving from whs2011 to 2012r2+ee is that the bare metal restore takes so much longer with the new software. otherwise, neither of them are difficult to administer. The only aggravation I experience these days is for a win10 major upgrade (and many insider upgrades so I stopped with that) you have to re-join to the server. too bad ms could not be more considerate in that regard.

Yes those win 10 upgrades are downgrades. One of my win 10 pcs no longer had a desktop. i could run from task manager. Coincidental with the anniversary update? I think so. I then had to google and found a solution, something about explorer.exe.

 

By the way, according to microsoft,https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn479774(v=ws.11).aspx it sounds like one can fairly easily upgrade from essentials to standard and retain the dashboard by registering the standard license. Sounds not too bad. I wonder if things dont work out, if I can downgrade back to essentials.

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