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Luma technical discussion


dchay

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schoondoggy

As I patiently wait for my Luma to arrive, I had a thought. Those that have Luma product are running into issues that I would have expected to be resolved in beta. As I remember, they were going to run a second beta and decided not to. On another point, I really wonder how many units they have shipped? I am not seeing the social media swell I would have expected. What about reviews? HSS seems to be about the only place where people are posting their reviews/tests.

I am now of the mind that Luma has not shipped that much and they are trying to iron out the bugs before the next wave ships in late August. They can tell investors they shipped on time and hopefully they can make it all work without alienating the customer base.

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Hi guys,   First off, I really enjoyed reading through the previous thread that way just locked. It was informative and your courtesy to one another is not like any online forum I've seen before. S

The R8000 is a great router and the hardware is pretty comparable to both eero and Luma. I run an R7000 with DD-WRT and I love it.   I can tell you that in the first few weeks of release, eero had a

As I said in the other thread, IMHO any wifi system that uses wifi as the backhaul is fatally flawed from the outset.  Don't waste your money on these things.

Interesting thought.  I don't recall the second beta discussion but I do remember that several of us volunteered to beta for them.  They could have shipped to the HSS pre-orders and we would have helped iron out some bugs.  At least they could have received feedback from the technical crowd that we are.  Perhaps they see this and will get HSS their units or at least come forth and give some better answers.  I know they followed me on Twitter so they know we are here.  I'll go check the logs and see if traffic from Atlanta has picked up.  ;)

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qtopplings

Interesting thought.  I don't recall the second beta discussion but I do remember that several of us volunteered to beta for them.  They could have shipped to the HSS pre-orders and we would have helped iron out some bugs.  At least they could have received feedback from the technical crowd that we are.  Perhaps they see this and will get HSS their units or at least come forth and give some better answers.  I know they followed me on Twitter so they know we are here.  I'll go check the logs and see if traffic from Atlanta has picked up.   ;)

 

 

I'm curious how you feel about what Paul Judge told you in your interview, vs. what actually shipped with the product.   Seems disingenuous to say the least.  He clearly stated there would be features that are not implemented at this point.  I, along with many other people, put down money on pre-order for a fully realized product; at the very least ship what your marketing promised.   I keep going back and forth on whether I want to be patient and support this new company or not.   I spoke to a guy in support, and his excuse for late shipping?  "We are literally shipping MILLIONS of Lumas.  It takes time".   Um, ok.

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awraynor

As I patiently wait for my Luma to arrive, I had a thought. Those that have Luma product are running into issues that I would have expected to be resolved in beta. As I remember, they were going to run a second beta and decided not to. On another point, I really wonder how many units they have shipped? I am not seeing the social media swell I would have expected. What about reviews? HSS seems to be about the only place where people are posting their reviews/tests.

I am now of the mind that Luma has not shipped that much and they are trying to iron out the bugs before the next wave ships in late August. They can tell investors they shipped on time and hopefully they can make it all work without alienating the customer base.

 

All the tweets Paul Judge has retweeted mention great experiences so it must be true. 

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itGeeks

As I patiently wait for my Luma to arrive, I had a thought. Those that have Luma product are running into issues that I would have expected to be resolved in beta. As I remember, they were going to run a second beta and decided not to. On another point, I really wonder how many units they have shipped? I am not seeing the social media swell I would have expected. What about reviews? HSS seems to be about the only place where people are posting their reviews/tests.

I am now of the mind that Luma has not shipped that much and they are trying to iron out the bugs before the next wave ships in late August. They can tell investors they shipped on time and hopefully they can make it all work without alienating the customer base.

You make some interesting point. Are you sure they did not have the 2nd beta? I forgot about the 2nd beta or should I say I thought I just did not make the cut. All of what your saying sure does make you wonder.

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cskenney

In other topics the discussion of ethernet backhaul keeps coming up.  I have to ask what tangible benefit this is providing?

 

From my point of view most of the data is coming from my router to my device (streaming videos off the internet or from a wired server in my house).  Only in cases where I am streaming from a wireless device to something else would the ethernet backhaul really benefit me, right?  Or in cases where I am uploading from my wireless device to something else.

 

What is happening if I have all 3 devices (Luma for example) connected via ethernet?  Is the router still using the mesh to hop it's way to the farthest module if that is the one I am connected to?  Or does it know it could send the data down the ethernet cable and then transmit from that remote module (avoiding hopping from module to module using the mesh)?

 

I am just curious.  If this takes us too far off on a tangent I will break this into it's own discussion.

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itGeeks

In other topics the discussion of ethernet backhaul keeps coming up.  I have to ask what tangible benefit this is providing?

 

From my point of view most of the data is coming from my router to my device (streaming videos off the internet or from a wired server in my house).  Only in cases where I am streaming from a wireless device to something else would the ethernet backhaul really benefit me, right?  Or in cases where I am uploading from my wireless device to something else.

 

What is happening if I have all 3 devices (Luma for example) connected via ethernet?  Is the router still using the mesh to hop it's way to the farthest module if that is the one I am connected to?  Or does it know it could send the data down the ethernet cable and then transmit from that remote module (avoiding hopping from module to module using the mesh)?

 

I am just curious.  If this takes us too far off on a tangent I will break this into it's own discussion.

Are your questions ever easy? LOL kidding. I will try my best to answer you. Ethernet backhaul is going to be much better to wireless mesh because you don't have to worry about the amount of hops to the Luma gateway device as you do with wireless and you won't lose speed per hop like you do with wireless mesh. The nodes still have to find there way back to the Luma gateway but that's at wire speed no wireless so the latency and speed will be minimal. If you do wireless mesh each hop back to the gateway reduces the speed in great numbers and that's y its recommended not to have more then 1 or 2 hopes back to the mesh gateway. Have a look at this great YouTube video of John reviewing Open-Mesh for how much speed you can lose when using Wireless Mesh over wired mesh, Its drastic so avoid it if at all possible. Think using repeaters and how bad the performance is, Its the same thing when using wireless mesh. Here is the YouTube, I think the performance is towards the end of the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb_c2Gpvb58

 

Basicly you can look at it like this as with anything networking wired will always be better then wireless and these WAP mesh products are no different, Using wireless is better then nothing but hooking up to wired is always going to perform the best no matter what the device is.

 

Hope this helps.....

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cskenney

The video did not help and maybe I haven't asked my question correctly.

 

The principle behind the mesh network is that the modules can talk to each other.  As soon as you hard wire every module haven't you effectively turned each device into an individual access point?  The mesh network is no longer used, right?  Devices will lock onto the strongest signal for the SSID they are after.  You probably won't switch from one module to another unless the signal gets weak enough and at that point you will just jump to the strongest module your device can find.

 

The beauty for the average homeowner who knows nothing about setting up wireless networks and ethernet cabling is that they can buy Eero or Luma and just drop module 2, 3, etc. in areas that they want to try and improve their WIFI.  They probably don't care that they have cut their bandwidth from 100Mb to 50Mb to 25Mb because they probably are probably watching Netflix on their TV while scrolling through Facebook on their phone.

 

So with all that said, ethernet backhaul (I am assuming is 2-way traffic) is essentially turning each module in the mesh network into individual access points.  Or, tell me why this isn't true.

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itGeeks

The video did not help and maybe I haven't asked my question correctly.

 

The principle behind the mesh network is that the modules can talk to each other.  As soon as you hard wire every module haven't you effectively turned each device into an individual access point?  The mesh network is no longer used, right?  Devices will lock onto the strongest signal for the SSID they are after.  You probably won't switch from one module to another unless the signal gets weak enough and at that point you will just jump to the strongest module your device can find.

 

The beauty for the average homeowner who knows nothing about setting up wireless networks and ethernet cabling is that they can buy Eero or Luma and just drop module 2, 3, etc. in areas that they want to try and improve their WIFI.  They probably don't care that they have cut their bandwidth from 100Mb to 50Mb to 25Mb because they probably are probably watching Netflix on their TV while scrolling through Facebook on their phone.

 

So with all that said, ethernet backhaul (I am assuming is 2-way traffic) is essentially turning each module in the mesh network into individual access points.  Or, tell me why this isn't true.

I am sorry the video did not help. As I said before the meshing can be wired or wireless wired being better, Other then that the system works the same but with less performance if it's wireless mesh. Have a look at this and hopefully it can exsplan better https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh_networking

 

The only advantage of wireless mesh is a user that does not have Ethernet and or does not want to run Ethernet to a location can place a node in that location to get wireless coverage in that aria. not the best option but if its the only option then its better then no internet at all. Hope I am clear now. Best performance for mesh will always be Ethernet backhaul to the network.

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The video did not help and maybe I haven't asked my question correctly.

 

The principle behind the mesh network is that the modules can talk to each other.  As soon as you hard wire every module haven't you effectively turned each device into an individual access point?  The mesh network is no longer used, right?  Devices will lock onto the strongest signal for the SSID they are after.  You probably won't switch from one module to another unless the signal gets weak enough and at that point you will just jump to the strongest module your device can find.

 

The beauty for the average homeowner who knows nothing about setting up wireless networks and ethernet cabling is that they can buy Eero or Luma and just drop module 2, 3, etc. in areas that they want to try and improve their WIFI.  They probably don't care that they have cut their bandwidth from 100Mb to 50Mb to 25Mb because they probably are probably watching Netflix on their TV while scrolling through Facebook on their phone.

 

So with all that said, ethernet backhaul (I am assuming is 2-way traffic) is essentially turning each module in the mesh network into individual access points.  Or, tell me why this isn't true.

 

 

Maybe my understanding is wrong on mesh wireless.. if so, someone please correct me.

 

My network previously consisted of two access points both on the same SSID. They were connected to each other via ethernet. With two units, I did not get full coverage throughout the whole house but when I was close enough, it worked fine. The problem however was there was no handoff so if I walked from one area to another, my connections would drop and connectivity would be stalled until my device regained a connection from the closer AP. And if I was in between the two APs, I sometimes found my device flipping between the two. Sometimes the weaker signal would win. Go figure. Ugh.

 

My hope with the Lumas was since the nodes communicate with each other, I will get seamless handoff and no loss of connections. That's the advantage I am looking for regardless of whether the Lumas are communicating with each other wirelessly or via wire.

 

My hope with the ethernet backhaul is:

 

1.) If my Internet connection is on Luma 1 and my wireless device is talking to Luma 2, then without ethernet backhaul, my traffic goes from wireless device to Luma 2 wirelessly and then from Luma 2 to Luma 1 wirelessly and then to the Internet. That's two trips through the air. With ethernet backhaul, I expect my traffic goes from wireless device to Luma 2 wirelessly, but then WIRED to Luma 1, then to the Internet. I avoid one wireless trip.

 

2.) The reason I don't get full coverage throughout the house with a single AP means I will have the same or similar issues with one Luma talking to another. Unless I bunch the Lumas up, I really don't get to spread them further apart to increase coverage. For example what if a stone wall, or metal piping, or a microwave, etc is between my two Luma nodes? By having the Lumas communicate via ethernet, I can get around this issue. Your wireless device talks to the closest/best Luma node and the Lumas communicate efficiently over ethernet to do seamless handoff as I move around the house.

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