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t2clej

openmesh and cloudtrax

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t2clej

Good question and one that I asked Open-Mesh about last year, There response was they are working on a self hosted controller package but I have not heard anything since then. I just sent them an email asking for an update on this, You can do the same support@open-mesh.com or sales@open-mesh.com please report back with the answer and I will do the same.

 

 

Will do. I just sent them email asking about self host option.

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itGeeks

itGeeks and pcdoc - THANK YOU very much.

 

Got the MR1750 setup last night as things seem to be working well. Your advice was very helpful and saved me a lot of time. If I ceiling mount the device on 2nd floor, I have full coverage of the house. Verified this by having kids hold the unit up on ladder with really long cat6 cable.

 

I agree with your thoughts on cloudtrax security. I just wanted to make sure there was not some glaring security risk I missed while reading reviews. 

 

Regarding channel selection - the unit has chosen channel 10 for 2.4Ghz. I have manually changed that to 11 as my wifi analyzer does not have much on that channel from neighbors. I'm happy to change back to AUTO if you guys recommend that. I was always told 1,6,11 only for 2.4Ghz.

 

Only other issue I have is after changes are made, it says they will take effect in 1-2 min. I'm never sure when this changes are complete. Is there a way to tell?

 

Thanks again. I'm sure more questions will follow.

Glad to here you got it setup and working well, You will love the system. As for channel selection you are correct in that for the 2.4Ghz channels 1,6,11 are the none overlapping channels but that does not mean you can't use other channels, It is best to avoid that if possible but in some cases you just can't. If you live in a dense neighborhood the recommend channel number with change several times a day as wireless devices come on and off so don't drive yourself to crazy with this. Now that you have manually set channel 11 I would now set it to automatic and see how it all works over the next several days. You can tell what channel the WAPs are using by logging into cloudtrax and go to manage-> access points, The channel numbers for both the 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz are listed.

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pcdoc

itGeeks and pcdoc - THANK YOU very much.

 

Got the MR1750 setup last night as things seem to be working well. Your advice was very helpful and saved me a lot of time. If I ceiling mount the device on 2nd floor, I have full coverage of the house. Verified this by having kids hold the unit up on ladder with really long cat6 cable.

 

I agree with your thoughts on cloudtrax security. I just wanted to make sure there was not some glaring security risk I missed while reading reviews. 

 

Regarding channel selection - the unit has chosen channel 10 for 2.4Ghz. I have manually changed that to 11 as my wifi analyzer does not have much on that channel from neighbors. I'm happy to change back to AUTO if you guys recommend that. I was always told 1,6,11 only for 2.4Ghz.

 

Only other issue I have is after changes are made, it says they will take effect in 1-2 min. I'm never sure when this changes are complete. Is there a way to tell?

 

Thanks again. I'm sure more questions will follow.

 

I did the same.  Leave it on manual if it works for you.  I have done it both ways but at that time I had three different MFG access points so I want the best performance.  Now I am all Open-Mesh.  Just got my third one for outdoors in the back yard which I will setup in the few weeks once I find the motivation to run cable.  The coverage on these are pretty amazing.

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pcdoc

Good question and one that I asked Open-Mesh about last year, There response was they are working on a self hosted controller package but I have not heard anything since then. I just sent them an email asking for an update on this, You can do the same support@open-mesh.com or sales@open-mesh.com please report back with the answer and I will do the same.

 

I would be interested in that.  Not for home but enterprise.  We use and open-mesh at work and it would be easier to run the controller on prem behind the firewall without opening ports.

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LoneWolf

1. Yes, i would start by letting it select channels.  2. Yes, SSID are the same for both frequencies.

 

 

 

I am not aware of anything though it maybe out there.  Any particular reason you do not want to use the cloud controller?

 

Yes, several reasons, though I asked mainly for curiosity's sake. While I don't mind a cloud controller if it is an option, I don't care for it as the *only* option, and I'll explain why.  Note:  This is not a knock on OpenMesh as a product; there are other products that do this the same way at this time too; I just don't want anyone to get that idea.

 

I'm a networking guy by trade.  I'm also old-school.  This means that any time a management/control element of a product is moved outside of my control, I'm concerned.

 

a. I'm required as part of my job to be concerned about what happens if the cloud management service goes down due to a vendor issue.  This would mean that if the client required a change to their access points, it might not be impossible to accomplish, but would certainly be a lot more difficult (e.g., ssh connection one-by-one into each of their access points).

b. In some cases, such as a HIPAA-compliant environment, I might not be allowed to use OpenMesh as a solution because its management is off-the-premises.  And in a PCI-compliant environment I could probably use it, but it would be preferred not to.

c.  It has not been unheard of for a business to suddenly move to a subscription-based model for control services.  Yes, OpenManage is not doing that and has said they will not, and I believe that --as long as they do not run into financial difficulties that might require them to change their business model, or change their business model with new models of access points going forward.

d. It has not been unheard of for a business to either cease to exist, or be bought out by another business or merge.  This could cause the revenue model to change to a subscription-based model, or cause the cloud presence to go away completely.  In that sort of environment, one would need at minimum, time to plan a switchover to a new product line for a client, which would be extremely difficult if there was no on-premises management.

 

This is a reason why it is so easy for Cisco/Meraki or Aerohive to give out access points at some of their demos.  The hardware eventually becomes useless if you don't pick up the cloud management subscription.  If OpenMesh makes CloudTrax an optional (not required) on-premise install, say through a virtual machine or a PC-on-a-stick like Ubiquiti, this would be a big deal to me, and to a number of netadmin types.  It doesn't have to be the only way, but it's an option I would like to see.

 

Admittedly, Cisco/Meraki, Aerohive, and others with cloud management platforms have an appeal to managed service providers to a point as well.  If it's subscription-based, or if it's managed in the cloud like CloudTrax, I can set that up, set up a recurring (monthly, quarterly, or anually) management fee where the client pays me to do all of the management, and (if necessary, like in the case of Meraki) rolls the subscription costs in, a la the Office 365 method of management.

 

However, if I'm a sysadmin who works for the company that hired me, or if I'm working on a home network, my preference is to reduce my reliance on any third party as much as possible.  The moment management is outside my own environment, I'm reliant on someone else.  I'm also reliant on their network security to keep my own wireless controller setup secure, whereas if my controller is on-premise, I can maybe not make it invulnerable, but can mitigate this even further because it's behind my firewall.

 

Just the thoughts of someone brought along to look at it from an enterprise perspective.

Edited by LoneWolf

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pcdoc

Yes, several reasons, though I asked mainly for curiosity's sake. While I don't mind a cloud controller if it is an option, I don't care for it as the *only* option, and I'll explain why.  Note:  This is not a knock on OpenMesh as a product; there are other products that do this the same way at this time too; I just don't want anyone to get that idea.

 

I'm a networking guy by trade.  I'm also old-school.  This means that any time a management/control element of a product is moved outside of my control, I'm concerned.

 

a. I'm required as part of my job to be concerned about what happens if the cloud management service goes down due to a vendor issue.  This would mean that if the client required a change to their access points, it might not be impossible to accomplish, but would certainly be a lot more difficult (e.g., ssh connection one-by-one into each of their access points).

b. In some cases, such as a HIPAA-compliant environment, I might not be allowed to use OpenMesh as a solution because its management is off-the-premises.  And in a PCI-compliant environment I could probably use it, but it would be preferred not to.

c.  It has not been unheard of for a business to suddenly move to a subscription-based model for control services.  Yes, OpenManage is not doing that and has said they will not, and I believe that --as long as they do not run into financial difficulties that might require them to change their business model, or change their business model with new models of access points going forward.

d. It has not been unheard of for a business to either cease to exist, or be bought out by another business or merge.  This could cause the revenue model to change to a subscription-based model, or cause the cloud presence to go away completely.  In that sort of environment, one would need at minimum, time to plan a switchover to a new product line for a client, which would be extremely difficult if there was no on-premises management.

 

This is a reason why it is so easy for Cisco/Meraki or Aerohive to give out access points at some of their demos.  The hardware eventually becomes useless if you don't pick up the cloud management subscription.  If OpenMesh makes CloudTrax an optional (not required) on-premise install, say through a virtual machine or a PC-on-a-stick like Ubiquiti, this would be a big deal to me, and to a number of netadmin types.  It doesn't have to be the only way, but it's an option I would like to see.

 

Admittedly, Cisco/Meraki, Aerohive, and others with cloud management platforms have an appeal to managed service providers to a point as well.  If it's subscription-based, or if it's managed in the cloud like CloudTrax, I can set that up, set up a recurring (monthly, quarterly, or anually) management fee where the client pays me to do all of the management, and (if necessary, like in the case of Meraki) rolls the subscription costs in, a la the Office 365 method of management.

 

However, if I'm a sysadmin who works for the company that hired me, or if I'm working on a home network, my preference is to reduce my reliance on any third party as much as possible.  The moment management is outside my own environment, I'm reliant on someone else.  I'm also reliant on their network security to keep my own wireless controller setup secure, whereas if my controller is on-premise, I can maybe not make it invulnerable, but can mitigate this even further because it's behind my firewall.

 

Just the thoughts of someone brought along to look at it from an enterprise perspective.

 

All good reasons.  Even though I do not share your concerns for home, I completely understand from an enterprise point of view.  We have the same issue at work.  Though am I am not network guy I am responsible for the IT group and have to consider all those same issues that you brought up.  At work I used an open mesh for the guest network which is on a dedicated NIC which does not touch our internal network at all and used a Sophos AP that will managed by the UTM for internal WiFi access.  Thanks for sharing your concerns and for your input.

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JROrtiz

I don't like the cloud controller approach either but it seems to be the way all of these consumer solutions are going.

 

In regards to your router question, I'm a big fan of Netgear's Nighthawk line. Very good hardware and surprisingly good software. I flash DD-WRT on my routers for a little extra control, but both Netgear's and ASUS' software provide a lot of functionality on their high end routers.

 

If you're using OM for your wireless needs, don't worry about getting the top of the line model since the price difference is mostly due to the radios and antenna it supports which you wouldn't be using anyway. For example, the R7000 and R8000 both have the same processor, ports, and I believe the same amount of RAM and ROM; yet the R8000 runs about $100 more expensive (on Amazon) because of the radios and extra antenna. No need to overpay for features you're not going to use.

 

Hope that helps.

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itGeeks

I don't like the cloud controller approach either but it seems to be the way all of these consumer solutions are going.

 

In regards to your router question, I'm a big fan of Netgear's Nighthawk line. Very good hardware and surprisingly good software. I flash DD-WRT on my routers for a little extra control, but both Netgear's and ASUS' software provide a lot of functionality on their high end routers.

 

If you're using OM for your wireless needs, don't worry about getting the top of the line model since the price difference is mostly due to the radios and antenna it supports which you wouldn't be using anyway. For example, the R7000 and R8000 both have the same processor, ports, and I believe the same amount of RAM and ROM; yet the R8000 runs about $100 more expensive (on Amazon) because of the radios and extra antenna. No need to overpay for features you're not going to use.

 

Hope that helps.

I can confirm the Asus routers are great if you want an off the shelf router however they lack some of the advanced protection you get with something like Untangle/Sophos. I used Asus routers for years and in some cases I still do but now I prefer an advanced NG Firewalls from the likes of Untangle. Just depends what your looking and how much protection you want at the gateway. I also heard the Netgear's Nighthawk line is great but I have never used then, I do use Netgear's switch both managed and unmanaged and they work great.

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LoneWolf

I don't like the cloud controller approach either but it seems to be the way all of these consumer solutions are going.

 

In regards to your router question, I'm a big fan of Netgear's Nighthawk line. Very good hardware and surprisingly good software. I flash DD-WRT on my routers for a little extra control, but both Netgear's and ASUS' software provide a lot of functionality on their high end routers.

 

If you're using OM for your wireless needs, don't worry about getting the top of the line model since the price difference is mostly due to the radios and antenna it supports which you wouldn't be using anyway. For example, the R7000 and R8000 both have the same processor, ports, and I believe the same amount of RAM and ROM; yet the R8000 runs about $100 more expensive (on Amazon) because of the radios and extra antenna. No need to overpay for features you're not going to use.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Did I make a router question? I must be getting old. (Yells out the window: "You kids get off my WLAN!!!") :D

 

For routers, my choices all depend on whose using the product and how technically astute --and budget.

 

I use a Watchguard T-30W as my router.  I have full UTM for the next three years.  I wouldn't be able to afford that on a home budget, but I'm certified in the product, and so I get a hefty discount.

 

If I was on the less expensive, these days I'd probably get a mini-PC with dual NICs and go Sophos, due to full UTM for free in a home environment.  Having seen gateway antivirus, intrusion prevention, and all of the benefits a UTM box provides over the past five years, I'm sold.  Having a GUI is a benefit too, as compared to a useful (but complex) inexpensive box like the Ubiquiti Edgerouter Lite.  I could also pull a retired Sonicwall NSA off the pile if I wanted to, which would have great routing throughput and a good firewall, but like the Ubiquiti, no UTM (because there's no subscription).

 

My previous two routers have been ASUS; the RT-AC87R and the RT-AC66R before it.  They are nice boxes, and the new dual-core models do have a basic form of gateway antivirus (powered by Trend Micro).  However, their wireless doesn't come close to a Ubiquiti UAP-AC-PRO or OpenMesh MR1750.  Having seen this, I'd rather get the right tool for the right job.  It's not bad wifi, but once you've had better, it's obvious.

 

Ubiquiti and the Linksys LAPAC1750PRO offer on-premises management and clustering, without breaking the bank.  I believe Engenius access points do as well; though they aren't as well known, some of their APs use the same hardware as some OpenMesh models.

Edited by LoneWolf

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