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LoneWolf

My New Acquisition - Ubiquti UAP-AC-PRO

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itGeeks

I don't bother hard coding it in the router any more.  I run a client off a 24/7 system in the house that keeps the registration going.  Then I don't need the router support.

 

I believe my ASUS RT-AC87 router also supports no-ip.com but as I'm using the Watchguard now, the software client is fine.  It works just as well.

 

Dyn can have my business back as soon as their prices come down a little; I just found this is cheaper and does the job well.  I've had it for four months now and have never had an outage.  No-IP is quite well known.

Thanks for the info. I take another look at them.

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itGeeks

$60 per year using my own registered domain name (costing me additional) is quite expensive when I could pay $32.95/year through no-ip.com and use up to fifty of their domain names, and they'll let me register one permanent domain on that price and manage it for me.

 

$60 doesn't sound like much, until you look at the percentage price increase Dyn has charged over the years, and also compare their service with the price of other Dynamic DNS services.  Suddenly, they're rather expensive by comparison, especially when the primary reason is just an SSL VPN connection.

 

Dyn's only advantage (which is questionable, IMO) is that there are some routers that solely support DynDNS in their firmware.  While that's true of WatchGuard, I just run the client on a local 24/7 PC and get around that.  They have recognition, but there's other people that do what they do just as well, and aren't resting on a name that started back when DynDNS cost nothing.  I'd been paying for several years, and my last time it was $40/year.  For what they're giving me, relative to others, it's too rich for my blood.

 

P.S.  If I'm not insistent on my own registered domain name, for $20/year, I can have up to 25 of their domain names.  Which is also fine and good for VPN access.

Good points, Thanks for the info. I was using NO-IP back in the day and I could not remember y I stopped using them but now I remember thanks to you, It was lack of router support so I moved to Dyn. Like you said "use there client" problem solved. I just signed up for the free account, I will play with it a bit before jumping in with both feet.

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itGeeks

You are missing the critical point with Wifi - the weakest link in the chain is the transmitter in the *client* not the AP.

 

The AP could have the best radio in the industry but it cannot defy basic physics that says a weak wifi signal *from* a phone/tablet cannot be 'heard' by the AP, even if the phone can 'hear' the AP perfectly well.

 

I can guarantee a single OpenMesh would not penetrate better at 5ghz in my environment than multiple APs, due to the physical wall construction.

I respectfully disagree, I do fully understand the critical point. I further understand that 'over saturation & WAPs that are loud can harm your performance rather then help. A forum member on here said some time ago when i was saying how good Open-Mesh was that there none Open-Mesh WAP could be seen blocks away from it, Well in my humble opinion that only gives you bragging rights and probably doing more harm then good to the performance if he is in a heavily populated aria with WiFi. I am in such an aria that new WAPs are showing up all the time. Powerful & Controlled WAPs is the best policy. Though I may have the power to broadcast blocks away I keep it controlled with the power settings to cover only whats needed. All I was trying to say was in my testing Open-Mesh out performed Ubiquiti so now I am a fanboy of Open-Mesh, Like everything else mileage will vary. Stick to what works for you.

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snapper

I respectfully disagree, I do fully understand the critical point. I further understand that 'over saturation & WAPs that are loud can harm your performance rather then help. A forum member on here said some time ago when i was saying how good Open-Mesh was that there none Open-Mesh WAP could be seen blocks away from it, Well in my humble opinion that only gives you bragging rights and probably doing more harm then good to the performance if he is in a heavily populated aria with WiFi. I am in such an aria that new WAPs are showing up all the time. Powerful & Controlled WAPs is the best policy. Though I may have the power to broadcast blocks away I keep it controlled with the power settings to cover only whats needed. All I was trying to say was in my testing Open-Mesh out performed Ubiquiti so now I am a fanboy of Open-Mesh, Like everything else mileage will vary. Stick to what works for you.

 

 

I think I'm perhaps not getting myself across very well.

 

 

In your original post, you said: 

 

 

...You also wont need as many WAP's to cover the same aria as you would from others so there is a big savings as well. I would also bet that where you need 2 of the Ubiquiti you may need only one of the Open-Mesh.

 

 

But this is incorrect - you have made no reference to the building structure, other Wifi AP's, any interference etc. 

If I just brought an Open Mesh based on your assertion, I would be extremely disappointed and be posting how useless they are as they don't cover very well, especially for the price paid!

 

I'm not being deliberately argumentative here; you just need to be careful about blindly saying how good OpenMesh products are, when they might not work for that particular scenario.

 

This isn't an OpenMesh vs Ubiquiti thing; I'm a brand-tart and will go with whatever gives me the best bang-per-buck  :D

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LoneWolf

Okay, the unit was installed this afternoon.  Rather than go the easy way out, I took a slightly harder option, for longevity of how I wanted to do things.

 

I could have installed the Windows controller software.  That would have been easy --too easy.  I added a Ubunutu 14.04 LTS Gen2 Hyper-V VM to my server (20GB, 4GB RAM allocated), and installed X11VNC to remote to it easily.  Following someone else's very helpful web guide, I installed the necessary Ubiquiti repositories, and signed in to the controller interface through Firefox.  I first linked the WAP, then upgraded its firmware, and then set up a single SSID with WPA2-AES, enabled band steering, and set the 5GHz radio to 80MHz bandwidth (keeping the 2.4GHz at 20MHz).

 

It's early stages, so I don't want to overstate yet, but so far, I'm reasonably impressed.  My Netgear GS110TP switch works great at giving it 802.af PoE.  The Buffalo AC1200 bridge in my wife's office (it has a 4-port gig switch built in and connects her computer and our color laser to the LAN) connected fine, as did my Emerson Sensi wireless thermostat, two iPhones (a 5c and a 6), and a Google Nexus 6.  Clients connect remarkably quickly after you enter the password; I don't recall ever seeing a device get an IP off my router as fast for any previous network configuration I've had.  Throughput and range (this is subjective) so far has been excellent, at worst going toe-to-toe with my previous ASUS RT-AC87R 802.11AC router, and actually seeming just a tad snappier.

 

For fun, I then tested with this Samsung 4K demo on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9lwcRffq7c

 

My laptop really can't handle 4K (ThinkPad T420 Sandy Bridge Core i5; powerful for its day, but even with 16GB of RAM and Optimus graphics, just not quite there).  I ended up dropping to 1440p resolution; the video was easily able to stream faster than the playback (for reference, I have 80-90Mbps down and 12Mbps up through Comcast); this is using an Intel 6300 Ultimate-N 3 x 3 (so, maximunm 450Mbps) wireless adapter.  At some point, I'll test that same demo in 4K on my wife's desktop over the wireless bridge (a Core i5-4590S, 8GB RAM, and Geforce 750Ti that I put together) which will be over 2 x 2 802.11AC that fluctuates (according to the bridge) between a 700-866Mbps link.

 

All of this is without excessive tweaking or configuration of the WAP, just the basics.  We have a modest (approximately 1200 sq. foot ANSI, 1461 sq foot TFLA) house, lathe-and-plaster construction.  The WAP is at one corner of the house, and so far at the opposite end, there has been plenty of signal strength; I'm doubting I'll need to buy a second.  I don't have it mounted, and its placement would be considered not ideal by most here (really, it's on top of my TiVo which is on top of my HTPC in my media cabinet, which is underneath the TV).  That has not caused me any issues.

 

I will be testing throughout the week and will report back further.  I want to monitor which radios devices are getting steered to, how iPhones perform (Apple hardware has sometimes had interesting quirks with non-Apple wireless hardware in the past couple of years), and eventually, if performance changes when I add two VLANs to the network and create a second SSID for a guest network on the UAC-AP-PRO.  While I know there might be simpler ways to do it such as change settings on the WAP itself, in a production enterprise environment, best practice is to create a VLAN that separates guest wireless traffic, with a different subnet, and route that traffic straight out the firewall to the Internet, keeping it from using any resources on the private LAN.  So there will be a public VLAN and a private VLAN, and the interface on the WAP will be configured for both, with one SSID tied to the private, and one to the public.  I will also create rate-limiting rules on the guest VLAN either in the firewall or on the WAP to test what it's like to limit bandwidth to make sure a "guest" can't do a 30Mbps high-def Netflix stream.

Edited by LoneWolf

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itGeeks

 

I think I'm perhaps not getting myself across very well.

 

 

In your original post, you said: 

 

 

 

But this is incorrect - you have made no reference to the building structure, other Wifi AP's, any interference etc. 

If I just brought an Open Mesh based on your assertion, I would be extremely disappointed and be posting how useless they are as they don't cover very well, especially for the price paid!

 

I'm not being deliberately argumentative here; you just need to be careful about blindly saying how good OpenMesh products are, when they might not work for that particular scenario.

 

This isn't an OpenMesh vs Ubiquiti thing; I'm a brand-tart and will go with whatever gives me the best bang-per-buck  :D

 

Correct and well said. I made no reference to building structure because no one asked I did say however that "mileage will vary". For the record I live in a house that is wood/Sheetrock & vinyl siding so yes WAPs are going to work better for me then someone in a brick building with metal siding. You made some very good points and thank you for that. Sometimes we get caught up in how well something works for us we can forget y it does.

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diegolrz

Okay, the unit was installed this afternoon. Rather than go the easy way out, I took a slightly harder option, for longevity of how I wanted to do things.

 

I could have installed the Windows controller software. That would have been easy --too easy. I added a Ubunutu 14.04 LTS Gen2 Hyper-V VM to my server (20GB, 4GB RAM allocated), and installed X11VNC to remote to it easily. Following someone else's very helpful web guide, I installed the necessary Ubiquiti repositories, and signed in to the controller interface through Firefox. I first linked the WAP, then upgraded its firmware, and then set up a single SSID with WPA2-AES, enabled band steering, and set the 5GHz radio to 80MHz bandwidth (keeping the 2.4GHz at 20MHz).

 

It's early stages, so I don't want to overstate yet, but so far, I'm reasonably impressed. My Netgear GS110TP switch works great at giving it 802.af PoE. The Buffalo AC1200 bridge in my wife's office (it has a 4-port gig switch built in and connects her computer and our color laser to the LAN) connected fine, as did my Emerson Sensi wireless thermostat, two iPhones (a 5c and a 6), and a Google Nexus 6. Clients connect remarkably quickly after you enter the password; I don't recall ever seeing a device get an IP off my router as fast for any previous network configuration I've had. Throughput and range (this is subjective) so far has been excellent, at worst going toe-to-toe with my previous ASUS RT-AC87R 802.11AC router, and actually seeming just a tad snappier.

 

For fun, I then tested with this Samsung 4K demo on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9lwcRffq7c

 

My laptop really can't handle 4K (ThinkPad T420 Sandy Bridge Core i5; powerful for its day, but even with 16GB of RAM and Optimus graphics, just not quite there). I ended up dropping to 1440p resolution; the video was easily able to stream faster than the playback (for reference, I have 80-90Mbps down and 12Mbps up through Comcast); this is using an Intel 6300 Ultimate-N 3 x 3 (so, maximunm 450Mbps) wireless adapter. At some point, I'll test that same demo in 4K on my wife's desktop over the wireless bridge (a Core i5-4590S, 8GB RAM, and Geforce 750Ti that I put together) which will be over 2 x 2 802.11AC that fluctuates (according to the bridge) between a 700-866Mbps link.

 

All of this is without excessive tweaking or configuration of the WAP, just the basics. We have a modest (approximately 1200 sq. foot ANSI, 1461 sq foot TFLA) house, lathe-and-plaster construction. The WAP is at one corner of the house, and so far at the opposite end, there has been plenty of signal strength; I'm doubting I'll need to buy a second. I don't have it mounted, and its placement would be considered not ideal by most here (really, it's on top of my TiVo which is on top of my HTPC in my media cabinet, which is underneath the TV). That has not caused me any issues.

 

I will be testing throughout the week and will report back further. I want to monitor which radios devices are getting steered to, how iPhones perform (Apple hardware has sometimes had interesting quirks with non-Apple wireless hardware in the past couple of years), and eventually, if performance changes when I add two VLANs to the network and create a second SSID for a guest network on the UAC-AP-PRO. While I know there might be simpler ways to do it such as change settings on the WAP itself, in a production enterprise environment, best practice is to create a VLAN that separates guest wireless traffic, with a different subnet, and route that traffic straight out the firewall to the Internet, keeping it from using any resources on the private LAN. So there will be a public VLAN and a private VLAN, and the interface on the WAP will be configured for both, with one SSID tied to the private, and one to the public. I will also create rate-limiting rules on the guest VLAN either in the firewall or on the WAP to test what it's like to limit bandwidth to make sure a "guest" can't do a 30Mbps high-def Netflix stream.

My parents live in a brick house as well, a couple of years ago I fixed their wifi by doing a UAP-AP in pretty much every room with MinRSSI settings to help clients with roaming. However we still run into problems with roaming on vertically positioned ap's (aps in the first floor are too weak to deliver a good experience to the second floor, but even at the lowest signal they still show up).

 

Is it worth the upgrade to AC-PRO? Are you also doing low signal strength and minrssi? Or how do you manage roaming from ap to ap? ... I know first hand that ubiquiti could never get the zero-handoff thing working.

 

Thanks!

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itGeeks

My parents live in a brick house as well, a couple of years ago I fixed their wifi by doing a UAP-AP in pretty much every room with MinRSSI settings to help clients with roaming. However we still run into problems with roaming on vertically positioned ap's (aps in the first floor are too weak to deliver a good experience to the second floor, but even at the lowest signal they still show up).

 

Is it worth the upgrade to AC-PRO? Are you also doing low signal strength and minrssi? Or how do you manage roaming from ap to ap? ... I know first hand that ubiquiti could never get the zero-handoff thing working.

 

Thanks!

I don't know about ubiquiti but the zero-handoff of Open-Mesh works great from what i have been told from other forum members here that use more then 1 AP, I only have one and it covers everything I need. Maybe Jason or pcdoc can chime in and confirm what i am saying. You should give Open-Mesh at least a try its a really great product, I have the MR1750.

http://www.amazon.com/Open-Mesh-MR1750-802-11ac-Access-Point/dp/B013PTTGKM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1459089345&sr=8-2&keywords=mr1750+dual+band+802.11ac+access+point

Edited by itGeeks

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LoneWolf

Zero Hand-Off is a feature that should be left behind instead of the emerging 802.11r "Fast Roaming standard that is part of the 802.11 subset.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11r-2008

 

Note that the 802.11k protocol for radio resource management may be required to properly implement 802.11k.  802.11r has yet to be implemented on a lot of wireless gear; this year and next should see it become much more common, as the key use is wireless VoIP technologies.

 

802.11r is a standards-based protocol unlike Zero Hand-Off, which is Ubiquiti's own technology, and which is not supported on any of their 802.11ac access points.  The UAP-PRO is about the only example that I understand does reasonably with this standard.

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itGeeks

Zero Hand-Off is a feature that should be left behind instead of the emerging 802.11r "Fast Roaming standard that is part of the 802.11 subset.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11r-2008

 

Note that the 802.11k protocol for radio resource management may be required to properly implement 802.11k.  802.11r has yet to be implemented on a lot of wireless gear; this year and next should see it become much more common, as the key use is wireless VoIP technologies.

 

802.11r is a standards-based protocol unlike Zero Hand-Off, which is Ubiquiti's own technology, and which is not supported on any of their 802.11ac access points.  The UAP-PRO is about the only example that I understand does reasonably with this standard.

Ubiquiti does not do a good job with this. I also had the same problem when trying there WAPs. The Zero Hand-off did not work for me either with hundreds of complaints on the internet it was clear it was not just me. Its Open-Mesh all the way for me now, Everything just works. If you have had good luck with Ubiquity that's great I on the other hand have not. I also have had 2 of there tough switches fail within 2 years of each other. I am personally done with Ubiquiti. I am sure they must be doing something right with some of there products or they would not be still in business but in the products I have tested over the years its clear its not these products. Maybe its there Point-to-point product line that's saving them I am not sure. One thing thats for sure is like you said they over promise on there products and as I have seen it could take years for them to deliver on that promise. I am the one that started the post about Open-Mesh and some of the forum members have purchased it based on my recommendation and they are exstreamly happy with the product. Some have had problems with Apple devices but a quick email to Open-Mesh support resulted in a fast response from Open-Mesh with a beta firmware to try and fix there problem and in most cases did, Try that with Ubiquiti or many other company's. I am not try to start a pissing match with you I am just saying there are better products though they may cost more.

Edited by itGeeks

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