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JackoUK

OneDrive recent developments & announcements

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schoondoggy

No more figures from me now ...

... its your turn S.

 

1. If all MS revenues are up ... why do they need to slim OneDrive down?

 

2. How much do you think 10GB costs MS?

 

And also ...

 

... why do YOU think MS reneged?

1. I don't know, I don't work there.

2. I don't care, because they are not charging for it.

You can only renege on a contract, commitment or promise. This is none of those:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/renege

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JackoUK

More questions for S.

 

1. If Dropbox works nicely ... how come MS can't get OneDrive working?

 

2. What was actually wrong with OneDrive?

- placeholders didn't work with apps. like Lightroom (answer tell people to put their Lightroom catalogs elsewhere while you develop an answer with ADOBE)

- placeholders would fill up smartphones/tablets with 16GB SSD's (the people who buy 16GB units don't have many files ... or could buy a bigger SSD)

- slow syncing (switch the throttling off then!)

Like the 'abusers' these are all feeble excuses.

There is a real reason MS have decided not to finish OneDrive off.

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schoondoggy

More questions for S.

 

1. If Dropbox works nicely ... how come MS can't get OneDrive working?

 

2. What was actually wrong with OneDrive?

- placeholders didn't work with apps. like Lightroom (answer tell people to put their Lightroom catalogs elsewhere while you develop an answer with ADOBE)

- placeholders would fill up smartphones/tablets with 16GB SSD's (the people who buy 16GB units don't have many files ... or could buy a bigger SSD)

- slow syncing (switch the throttling off then!)

Like the 'abusers' these are all feeble excuses.

There is a real reason MS have decided not to finish OneDrive off.

1. I don't know.

2. I don't know.

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JackoUK

My calculation for the cost of 10GB to MS.

3TB disk on Amazon UK is £74.99.

Say it lasts 5 years before dying.

Say the cost of making this into OneDrive storage is 5 times the cost of a disk.

So 10GB is £74.99*(10/3000)*(5/5) which is just under 25 pence ...

... which I rounded up to 40cents.

 

Backblaze's current offer is 0.005 dollars per GB per month.

That's 0.06 dollars per GB  pa ... so 60 cents for 10GB.

 

[both Backblaze's B2 design and MS's scale out file system use commodity disks.]

 

Useful figure that from Backblaze - $60 a year for a TB.

Coincidentally - or should that be consistently? - the cost of Office 365 Personal, including 1TB of storage is $70!

For home storage builders wanting say 10TB - you are on the right side financially if you can do it for less than $600 pa ... which sounds trivially easy. 

Edited by JackoUK

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Joe_Miner

This thread on OneDrive has been split off from the StableBit CloudDrive Thread to keep that thread consistent with it's original posting -- The original CloudDrive Thread is at http://homeservershow.com/forums/index.php?/topic/9475-stablebit-clouddrive/ 


 


As in all postings Please keep the discussion Civil and Constructive -- see also http://homeservershow.com/forums/index.php?/topic/7393-forum-jargon-and-etiquette/ 


 


Thank you


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Drashna Jaelre

My calculation for the cost of 10GB to MS.

3TB disk on Amazon UK is £74.99.

Say it lasts 5 years before dying.

Say the cost of making this into OneDrive storage is 5 times the cost of a disk.

So 10GB is £74.99*(10/3000)*(5/5) which is just under 25 pence ...

... which I rounded up to 40cents.

 

Backblaze's current offer is 0.005 dollars per GB per month.

That's 0.06 dollars per GB  pa ... so 60 cents for 10GB.

 

[both Backblaze's B2 design and MS's scale out file system use commodity disks.]

 

Useful figure that from Backblaze - $60 a year for a TB.

Coincidentally - or should that be consistently? - the cost of Office 365 Personal, including 1TB of storage is $70!

For home storage builders wanting say 10TB - you are on the right side financially if you can do it for less than $600 pa ... which sounds trivially easy. 

There are a lot of problems this.

 

First, you don't know what drives Microsoft is purchasing for usage in their data centers.  

Assuming that they're using consumer grade (read cheapest available) drives isn't a good assumption. Most likely, they're using enterprise grade drives, which are going to be significantly more expensive. (2-3 times, or more).  

To be blunt, that's what I'd get. Not just because of a higher MTBF, but because of a better warranty.

 

And because ...

Well, I am kind of throwing this in your face:

SLAs. Specifically, Microsoft is a huge company. They have a lot of money to throw around, which means that any contract they enter in, they have a very, very good position to negotiate from. Why is this important? Because they're probably buying their drives directly from Seagate or WDC. By the pallet (probably literally, here). And as most of us probably know, buying in bulk gets you a better deal. Contracts for bulk get you an even better deal. Especially when you've negotiated hard for a good price. 

 

 

So, we don't really know how much Microsoft is paying for the drives they've sourced. But they're better quality than BackBlaze's, for sure.

 

 

 

Now, for the other issue here:

Infrastructure.  having enough drives is one thing. But that's only one part of it. How the data centers are set up is a huge thing. Not just in the terms of storage... but also in network.  Having enough high speed connections to handle the throughput of who knows how many concurrent users is massive. It's expensive as well. 

 

 

 

 

When I say that i'm not surprised that Microsoft ... well, did what they did, I say it because I saw the writing on the walls.  If they were aggressively throttling OneDrive's API, they were doing it because they couldn't keep up.  And they knew it. 

 

 

I think it's scummy that they advertised (which is yes, a promise, because that's what you kept on telling everyone) unlimited, and failed to deliver. 

 

 

Schoondoggy, if your ISP offered unlimited data, and then decided to change your contract to charge you for using over 300GBs of data every month, would you be upset as well?  Because it's the same situation here. While Microsoft may not have had a contract for OneDrive, they did have a user agreement.  Which... well, is a contract. And it really depends on what was in that agreement. 

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schoondoggy

My calculation for the cost of 10GB to MS.

3TB disk on Amazon UK is £74.99.

Say it lasts 5 years before dying.

Say the cost of making this into OneDrive storage is 5 times the cost of a disk.

So 10GB is £74.99*(10/3000)*(5/5) which is just under 25 pence ...

... which I rounded up to 40cents.

 

Backblaze's current offer is 0.005 dollars per GB per month.

That's 0.06 dollars per GB  pa ... so 60 cents for 10GB.

 

[both Backblaze's B2 design and MS's scale out file system use commodity disks.]

 

Useful figure that from Backblaze - $60 a year for a TB.

Coincidentally - or should that be consistently? - the cost of Office 365 Personal, including 1TB of storage is $70!

For home storage builders wanting say 10TB - you are on the right side financially if you can do it for less than $600 pa ... which sounds trivially easy. 

It is difficult to calculate enterprise storage cost, as they vary depending on the features and functions of the array, I will try to find a newer comparison, but this gives a base line on how to calculate enterprise storage cost:

http://www.computerweekly.com/feature/GB-vs-IOPS-and-how-to-compare-enterprise-storage-pricing

 

Even at $1-$2 per GB, you still need to add on power, cooling, network, application and support costs

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jmwills

Without going back through 26 comments, I really never saw the need to One Drive if I had WHS 2011 or Essentials.  "I am One Drive".

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schoondoggy

There are a lot of problems this.

 

First, you don't know what drives Microsoft is purchasing for usage in their data centers.  

Assuming that they're using consumer grade (read cheapest available) drives isn't a good assumption. Most likely, they're using enterprise grade drives, which are going to be significantly more expensive. (2-3 times, or more).  

To be blunt, that's what I'd get. Not just because of a higher MTBF, but because of a better warranty.

 

And because ...

Well, I am kind of throwing this in your face:

SLAs. Specifically, Microsoft is a huge company. They have a lot of money to throw around, which means that any contract they enter in, they have a very, very good position to negotiate from. Why is this important? Because they're probably buying their drives directly from Seagate or WDC. By the pallet (probably literally, here). And as most of us probably know, buying in bulk gets you a better deal. Contracts for bulk get you an even better deal. Especially when you've negotiated hard for a good price. 

 

 

So, we don't really know how much Microsoft is paying for the drives they've sourced. But they're better quality than BackBlaze's, for sure.

 

 

 

Now, for the other issue here:

Infrastructure.  having enough drives is one thing. But that's only one part of it. How the data centers are set up is a huge thing. Not just in the terms of storage... but also in network.  Having enough high speed connections to handle the throughput of who knows how many concurrent users is massive. It's expensive as well. 

 

 

 

 

When I say that i'm not surprised that Microsoft ... well, did what they did, I say it because I saw the writing on the walls.  If they were aggressively throttling OneDrive's API, they were doing it because they couldn't keep up.  And they knew it. 

 

 

I think it's scummy that they advertised (which is yes, a promise, because that's what you kept on telling everyone) unlimited, and failed to deliver. 

 

 

Schoondoggy, if your ISP offered unlimited data, and then decided to change your contract to charge you for using over 300GBs of data every month, would you be upset as well?  Because it's the same situation here. While Microsoft may not have had a contract for OneDrive, they did have a user agreement.  Which... well, is a contract. And it really depends on what was in that agreement. 

Yes I would be upset if my ISP did that, but that would not happen. They would wait till the contract expired and make changes to the new contract. Read your agreement with your ISP, most are monthly contracts, some yearly, Centurylink has a three year price guarantee. It is absolutely not the same situation. There is no contract or commitment. It is a free service.

I am not defending Microsoft.

It was stupid of them to offer unlimited storage. It is extremely short sighted to think that people will not abuse a service. Now they are upsetting people by making changes. OneDrive was a very good tool for keeping files synced between multiple devices. The Camera Roll function was my main use for it. If you are looking for cloud based backup for all of your systems, OneDrive is not a good choice. Crashplan, Carbonite and Mozy are good choices.

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Drashna Jaelre

Yes I would be upset if my ISP did that, but that would not happen. They would wait till the contract expired and make changes to the new contract. Read your agreement with your ISP, most are monthly contracts, some yearly, Centurylink has a three year price guarantee. It is absolutely not the same situation. There is no contract or commitment. It is a free service.

I am not defending Microsoft.

Unless your ISP is Comcast, apparently.

 

It was stupid of them to offer unlimited storage. It is extremely short sighted to think that people will not abuse a service. Now they are upsetting people by making changes. OneDrive was a very good tool for keeping files synced between multiple devices. The Camera Roll function was my main use for it. If you are looking for cloud based backup for all of your systems, OneDrive is not a good choice. Crashplan, Carbonite and Mozy are good choices.

I wouldn't call it abuse. That's like telling people they're abusing an all you can eat buffet because they went back for a second, third or fourth plate. It's not abuse. in fact, it' completely wrong to call it that.

 

They offered unlimited. People took that LITERALLY. Period. End of Story.

 

But like a buffet, they relied on that most people would use very little storage, and few would use a lot.

 

However, Microsoft underestimated how voracious that some of the higher end users would be. 

 

 

Spin it how you want, Microsoft screwed up here.

Additionally, Groove Music either requires a subscription fee.  Or REQUIRES you to put your actual files on OneDrive to access your collection.

 

So .... there is that too.

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