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A few setup questions


CaptainFred
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~snip~

Because of the way BB procures drives there is no way to determine where the drives came from. Two drives may have the same base part number, but may be designed for different use cases or assembled in different factories.

I am not saying that there are no issues with this family of Seagate drives. Obviously BB had a lot of bad ones, as have reviewers on Amazon and NewEgg. I believe it is difficult to draw conclusions when there is no way to research the origination of the drives. Also, as I have stated before, regardless of the drive vendor, using consumer drives in enterprise/professional environments voids the warranty.

~snip~

 

You are kinda arguing against your case here. If BB is sourcing disks from random channels and they still have astronomical failure rates, then obviously the problem is in the disk model/design and not a specific factory/batch.

 

About the warranty, this must be something specific to US, as there is no such nonsense in Europe. Yet BB are US based and have no problem returning drives under warranty.

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even rebuilding raid on a 1TB drive takes a long time, I can't imagine a 4-6TB drive. reviewing my hard drive 'pile' for the last decade I have lost a 320gb and a 250gb drive which was a refurb that lasted just past the 90 day warranty. All of my 1TB WD Blacks are still in service even beyond the 5yr warranty.

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You are kinda arguing against your case here. If BB is sourcing disks from random channels and they still have astronomical failure rates, then obviously the problem is in the disk model/design and not a specific factory/batch.

About the warranty, this must be something specific to US, as there is no such nonsense in Europe. Yet BB are US based and have no problem returning drives under warranty.

I have eight of these drives that have been running 24/7 for 18 months with zero failures. Why am I not seeing the same failure rate as BB? Once again, if there was more information, I think would draw more accurate conclusions. Do you work for BB? How do you know they have not had issues? In one of their posts they talk about warranty replacement drives from Seagate, but we don't know the origin of the drives that were being replaced.
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I have eight of these drives that have been running 24/7 for 18 months with zero failures. Why am I not seeing the same failure rate as BB? Once again, if there was more information, I think would draw more accurate conclusions. Do you work for BB? How do you know they have not had issues? In one of their posts they talk about warranty replacement drives from Seagate, but we don't know the origin of the drives that were being replaced.

 

So your 8 drives sample is better than the couple of hundreds/thousands of BB and scores of users complaining over the internet?

 

I have no affiliation with BB nor do I use their services.

 

I don't remember the concrete post on their blog, nor can be bothered to look for it at the moment, the point was that BB are able to replace their consumer grade disks under warranty. Also there is no such nonsense like voiding warranty if you use consumer grade HDD in business/enterprise environment in at least 4 European countries that I know of.

 

Can't comment on US, but I will take your word that that is the case, despite BB operating in US and sourcing a lot of their stock from newegg/amazon

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So your 8 drives sample is better than the couple of hundreds/thousands of BB and scores of users complaining over the internet?

 

I have no affiliation with BB nor do I use their services.

 

I don't remember the concrete post on their blog, nor can be bothered to look for it at the moment, the point was that BB are able to replace their consumer grade disks under warranty. Also there is no such nonsense like voiding warranty if you use consumer grade HDD in business/enterprise environment in at least 4 European countries that I know of.

 

Can't comment on US, but I will take your word that that is the case, despite BB operating in US and sourcing a lot of their stock from newegg/amazon

I did not say that my eight drives was a better representation. I just want to know why my results are different.

You don't need to take my word for it on the warrant statements. I posted links directly back to WD and Seagate warranty terms and conditions.

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My concern over the BB data is that many people seem to be interrupting it as 'I am not going to buy Seagate, they have a high failure rate'. Every drive vendor has had an issue like this. It could be an issue with the entire family or something specific to the 3TB model or a factory issue. If the BB info is so accurate and complete, why isn't WD using it in an ad campaign?

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I did not say that my eight drives was a better representation. I just want to know why my results are different.

 

If you are really trying to establish statistically meaningful information on disk reliability based on 8 drives, you really need more education on statistics before arguing the point.

With 8 disks, it's not difficult to get lucky. With 10,000 disks, OTOH, whatever the results show is statistically significant. I had 10 Seagates in the past 7 years, which averaged a slightly higher failure rate over 5 years (warranty period when I bought them). They were mixed in the same trays and servers with Samsung and HGST drives, which have had an exactly 0 failure rate over 7 years. I'm not saying that 30 disks gives a statistically significant measure, but when it matches up with an analysis over 50,000 disks, I'm afraid your sample of 8 is a minority one.

 

The reason people are interrupting interpreting it as "don't buy Seagate" is because that is what the available data is clearly indicating, far beyond what you might gleam from your 8-disk sample.

Edited by gordan
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The reason people are interrupting interpreting it as "don't buy Seagate" is because that is what the available data is clearly indicating, far beyond what you might gleam from your 8-disk sample.

 

What the data is indicating is that when many Seagate drives are used in a temperature controlled rack, in physical arrays of many disks (i.e. vibration plays a factor), there is a high failure rate.

That doesn't automatically mean that when used in a less dense/uncontrolled environment that Seagate will be worse than another manufacturer...

 

So yes, the BB survey is significant to their use case, unless you can replicate their environment, it is just an assumption that anyone else will experience the same results...

Edited by snapper
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What the data is indicating is that when many Seagate drives are used in a temperature controlled rack, in physical arrays of many disks (i.e. vibration plays a factor), there is a high failure rate.

That doesn't automatically mean that when used in a less dense/uncontrolled environment that Seagate will be worse than another manufacturer...

 

However, the data also shows that when used under the same conditions (harsh or otherwise), disks made by other manufacturers are more reliable.

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If you are really trying to establish statistically meaningful information on disk reliability based on 8 drives, you really need more education on statistics before arguing the point.

With 8 disks, it's not difficult to get lucky. With 10,000 disks, OTOH, whatever the results show is statistically significant. I had 10 Seagates in the past 7 years, which averaged a slightly higher failure rate over 5 years (warranty period when I bought them). They were mixed in the same trays and servers with Samsung and HGST drives, which have had an exactly 0 failure rate over 7 years. I'm not saying that 30 disks gives a statistically significant measure, but when it matches up with an analysis over 50,000 disks, I'm afraid your sample of 8 is a minority one.

 

The reason people are interrupting interpreting it as "don't buy Seagate" is because that is what the available data is clearly indicating, far beyond what you might gleam from your 8-disk sample.

I am not trying to statistically prove anything with my eight drives I am just pointing out that I have not seen the same percentage of failures as BB on the same model and capacity drive. I am extremely well versed in statistical analysis. So you contend that I am lucky, I don't believe in luck, I believe in facts and data. So you have determined that all Seagate drives are not worth buying because Seagate has a high fail rate on one drive in one family? Where is the logic in that?
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