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    Windows Server 2012 Essentials RTM


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    #21 ikon

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    Posted 10 October 2012 - 10:25 AM

    Only a fereinger would say that, or us ex-Mil types!


    Just remember, yer a fereinger to me :)
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    #22 jmwills

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    Posted 10 October 2012 - 12:52 PM

    Yea, whatever. :P
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    #23 ImTheTypeOfGuy

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    Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:11 PM

    LOL, except in all the rest of the world it's 11 - 10 - 12 or 12 - 10 - 11 ;)


    I thought it was always 12, 11, 10,.... So does Nasa.
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    #24 Big Worm

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    Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:44 PM

    180 day trial can be found here

    http://technet.micro...id=TEC_133_1_33
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    #25 ikon

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    Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:17 AM

    I thought it was always 12, 11, 10,.... So does Nasa.


    Not sure what NASA has to do with it, but ISO standard is YYYY-MM-DD.
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    #26 jmwills

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    Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:21 PM

    NASA countdown.......
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    #27 ikon

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    Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:53 PM

    NASA countdown.......


    Doh! Wow, that went waaayyyyy over my head. My excuse is....... wait, on 2nd thought, I have no excuse. I am so ashamed. :unsure:
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    #28 SusanBradley

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    Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:24 PM

    Maybe I'm missing the point but why wouldn't you want to upgrade WS2012E with a WS2012 standard key to take advantage of the hyper-v role in the home environment. Can't see why the Diva is knocking this. As a home user I tend to trust Paul's approach.

    Okay let me explain why I think Paul has a screw loose.

    1. Let's go down the road of licensing. The only way you can afford doing what he's recommending is to use Technet licenses. Technet are only to be allowed for testing. We go down the road of "wink wink" we do a LOT of testing. It's a gray area. To properly license using that "stick a Windows 2012 key and flip it to a standard" you'd be buying $425 Essentials and a $800 standard plus user cals. Yeah, right. That's realistic. Like not. $425 isn't a realistic home server price tag either if you really want to be honest with ourselves.

    2. The 1+2 right problem and the HyperV role on a domain controller problem. Let's say that you are the wealthiest person on the world and think nothing of spending $1200 on a home setup. Okay so you put the Server 2012 key in the Essentials box and transformed/transmorg'd it to a standard sku. This keeps the goodness of Remote web access and client backup but destroys media streaming as that's no longer supported and now gone as part of this transform thing. Paul didn't talk about that, did he? Then we have the problem of his recommendation of the HyperV role. Microsoft does not recommend installing the HyperV role ON a domain controller. And when you transform that Essentials box with a Standard key, it's still a domain controller. You can't dcpromo it down without it destroying client backup/remote web access. You have to leave it as a domain controller. The only time I see Microsoft talk about having your DC have the HyperV role is when they have one on a demo laptop going out in their "Evangelist role" talks. On a production machine you don't want a domain controller to also have the HyperV role. For one you now take one of the virtualization rights away from the 2012 as by EULA you can't run any other role on top of the HyperV without breaking that 1+ right thingy.

    Having additional services running with HyperV isn't tested or supported by Microsoft. On SBS standard , having that synthetic nic be there with real one would really screw with the brains of the sBS wizards. The essential wizards are in the same boat. It was not built/tested/designed to have the HyperV role running on it.

    3. Paul forgot that Windows 8 can how be a hyperV host so if you REALLY want to have a hyperV box and have your cake and home server too, I'd make Windows 8 (a much cheaper solution) be the HyperV base.

    Bottom line it's a licensing issue (that Paul glosses over and doesn't touch on), it's a support issue (you just destroyed media streaming, the HyperV role on a DC isn't something that is supported/recommended, Microsoft support can't back you up, etc etc).

    It's just a messy solution when there's now a much more elegant solution - use Windows 8 as your HyperV base.
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    #29 SusanBradley

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    Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:39 PM

    Heck even using Technet licenses is expensive compared to what it was ... that's what $300 bucks (now an annual subscription as the keys expire each year) versus what Home server used to cost before?

    Let's just be (sniff sniff) honest that $425 is not a reasonable price tag for a home server OS (speaking as an owner of HP HomeServer v1, and having a $50 copy of Home Server 2011, and a HP Microserver owner trying to figure out myself what I'm going to do... I'm leaning towards going the Win8/HyperV base way now)
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    #30 ikon

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    Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:22 PM

    OK, $425 IS a fair bit to pay for a home server OS, and I'm sure a lot of people WILL opt for Synology or some other option, but I'm not convinced that it's totally out of the realm of possibility. Amortised over a number of years, the cost is not so bad: for example, it's $85/yr over 5 years. As I said, many will opt for other solutions, but I think it is possible to justify the cost of WSE2012 in order to get the benefit of bare metal restores, plus video streaming, etc.
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    #31 jmwills

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    Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:49 PM

    Great post Susan and welcome aboard,
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    #32 Jason

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    Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:15 AM

    Great post Susan and welcome aboard,


    Agreed. Welcome Susan. Ironically when I tweeted to Paul that the SBSDiva "knocked" his run-hyperv-role-on-DC option, seems he glossed over that too ;-)
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    #33 Joe_Miner

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    Posted 13 October 2012 - 04:04 PM

    Welcome Susan -- enjoy your blog and your podcasts with HSS.

    I think the real street price of S2012E will be less, significantly less, than the $425 list -- but if people perceive the value there they will pay the price.

    I've run Win8 pro with hyper-v -- lots of hyper-v clients -- and it works very well. the only real issue I was unsure of was how to back up my machine including VM's that are running. I tried the Win7 version of the bare metal backup and the newer win8 file history but didn't/couldn't get it to work like server backup in 2008r2 or S2012 -- admittedly I probably don't know what I was doing so there may be a good solution out there. But if there's a solution to that -- then a central "file history" backup of everything is very interesting -- and it could be done with a $40 upgraded Win8 Pro -- that's what I think anyway.
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    #34 ImTheTypeOfGuy

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    Posted 17 October 2012 - 04:10 PM

    Great post Susan and welcome aboard,


    Ditto
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    #35 gcoupe

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    Posted 18 October 2012 - 01:02 PM

    Ditto the welcome to Susan!

    You know, I feel rather out of place around here when I read the posts. It's clear that most of the folks here are real techies (and I mean that in a good way!). Me, I would just like a simple life. I would love to have a real home server that just sat in the corner and did its work without fuss, without me having to have IT skills, and came in at a reasonable price.

    WHS v1 made a reasonable stab at that. WHS 2011 tried to do more, and fell short. WS2012E is waving at me from another planet. It's not a Home Server, for a multitude of reasons...
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    #36 ikon

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    Posted 18 October 2012 - 01:29 PM

    WSE2012 is definitely in a different category from its predecessors. I suspect many will be using Win8 as their 'home servers' and finding some alternate way to do bare metal restores.
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    #37 Drashna (WGS)

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    Posted 19 October 2012 - 06:54 PM

    In my opinion you should NOT use Hyper-V in your WHS or Server. I would suggest that you install Hyper-V Core, free, on a machine and then create WHS as a guest on this. By doing this you can easily backup the WHS guest and restore your WHS as well as easily upgrade the hardware. It also allows me to still have my V1 and 2011 machines running on the same box and easily bringing them back to life.

    Interested in why someone would want the Hyper-V running on the WHS and not the other way around?

    Other than because they could? Actually, the recommended solution for running more than just Essentials (such as adding exchange, sharepoint, etc) is to grab Server 2012 Standard, install it on the machine, add the HyperV role (and just that) and then use the two VM licenses that come with Standard to install two VMs, rolling back one to 2012 Essentials, and install whatever else on the 2012 Standard VM.
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    #38 ikon

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    Posted 19 October 2012 - 07:11 PM

    the only downside is the cost of WS2012 Standard :(
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    #39 Greg Welch

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    Posted 19 October 2012 - 08:03 PM

    Other than because they could? Actually, the recommended solution for running more than just Essentials (such as adding exchange, sharepoint, etc) is to grab Server 2012 Standard, install it on the machine, add the HyperV role (and just that) and then use the two VM licenses that come with Standard to install two VMs, rolling back one to 2012 Essentials, and install whatever else on the 2012 Standard VM.

    Would you join the Host machine with Hyper-V only to the essentials machines domain and if so how :)
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    #40 Drashna (WGS)

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    Posted 19 October 2012 - 11:14 PM

    the only downside is the cost of WS2012 Standard

    Yup, Only the price of Two Essentials. Plus CALs. loads of CALs. :(
    But then again, if you are upgrading Essentials to Standard in a real world environment, you require a MINIMUM of 25 user CALs. Which is $400~ (for essentials) plus $800~ (for standard, because you have to buy that seperately too) PLUS the cals... which I want to say are around $25 per user (I have no idea, but that number *seems* right for whatever reason). So if you want to use hyperV on it, 800 is MUCH better than 1200.

    Would you join the Host machine with Hyper-V only to the essentials machines domain and if so how :)

    Would I join the host to the Essentials Guest VM? Yes. Static IP for the Host, and static IP for the VM, set the DNS for host to the Essentials guest, And make sure you are using bridge, or whatever one treats the guest VM as just another computer on the network. That should work fine, I would think. Server Core would probably be the best bet too. Would need to test it .... if I had any computers capable of running Hyper V *and* running guests at a speed other than a crawl. (core i3 1.3GHz doesn't cut it)

    I'm not sure what the recommended method is, but that *should* work, I think. Worst case, run the host as a workgroup computer, and that should be fine too.
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    Christopher Courtney
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