25 replies to this topic

[DesertServer]

I've started setting up a LTO-2 Ultrium backup solution to my home server. It's not the speediest solution, I think theoretical max is 80 MB/s, but it should work fine. I would like everything backed up and wanted some way to do it cheaply that could easily expand. Here's what I've purchased so far:

Dell 110T Powervault Ultrium LTO-2 $50 on ebay.
Adaptec SCSI controller pci-e $60 ebay.
10 LTO2 tapes $90 ebay (200GB/400GB per tape)

I currently have a Raid-5 array thats about 6TB total with about 2.5TB used. The hardware compression of the drive should get me over 200GB per tape but I haven't used these before, I really wanted a autoloader but they are expensive/large/loud rack devices mostly. Does anyone have any ideas for software? I want to backup files only not a complete image of the raid array or anything... I want to be able to add/check for changes against my backup. This will be on my 2008 R2 64bit box. Is there a journal that is kept on the first tape or something? I'd like to drag and drop onto the whole set of tapes etc.. Any input would be helpful!

[jmwills]

BackupExec will see those drives, but you are really getting into some real expense. A 3TB WD Red drive would run you about $150.

[DesertServer]

I think I'll need to find a alternative/cheaper solution software wise, maybe something open source or existing to 2008 r2. Can Windows see the drive natively? I think i'll be sticking to the tape solution, primarily because I'll be moving in the near future and want something that is more shock resistant than a hard drive, I also like the ability to mail the data around without worrying about it. Not sure I ever would but it seems like it might be nice to do.

[ikon]

Sorry, my advice would be to abandon the tape sol'n and go for hard drives. Tape is relatively expensive, requires a certain level of expertise to use, and is prone to failures. If you want to protect your drives, spend far less money and get Pelican 1300 cases to hold them.

[jmwills]

For the past 5 years, I shipped drives between the US, Italy, Iraq, and Korea. Zero issues, however, I took great care to pack them carefully. A domestic move should not cause you any issue. The only way to know is 2008 will se the device is to hook it up.
My experiences with tape drives and in particular Dell was in a SAN environment. The Dell interface runs from a web browser but the magic happened between BackUp Exec and the tape decks. Server 2008 might see the drives if you can find the right drivers and then it would be simply a matter of using the built-in Windows Backup program.

[pcdoc]

I have more tapes in my history of working with computers go bad and give trouble than hard drives. Forgo the tape thing and get a couple of hard drives which you can pack independently.

[ImTheTypeOfGuy]

I have more tapes in my history of working with computers go bad and give trouble than hard drives. Forgo the tape thing and get a couple of hard drives which you can pack independently.

there is nothing you haven't seen go bad. I think you are bad Karma.

We have yearly tapes from mid 90's until 2002 and then monthly tapes from 2002 til 2010, and then weekly tapes after that. Every tape before 2010 was recently tested by doing a restore. 100% success rate.

[ikon]

there is nothing you haven't seen go bad. I think you are bad Karma.

We have yearly tapes from mid 90's until 2002 and then monthly tapes from 2002 til 2010, and then weekly tapes after that. Every tape before 2010 was recently tested by doing a restore. 100% success rate.

Count your blessings. Someone at your workplace must be favoured by the Gods. Our LTO robots have broken down many times..... and they ain't cheap brother.

[jmwills]

Got that right.....I cannibalized brand new units while in Iraq just to keep the old ones running.

[ikon]

Yeah. Seems that HDDs are just the easier route overall. And they're easier to find and to replace too.

[pcdoc]

there is nothing you haven't seen go bad. I think you are bad Karma.

We have yearly tapes from mid 90's until 2002 and then monthly tapes from 2002 til 2010, and then weekly tapes after that. Every tape before 2010 was recently tested by doing a restore. 100% success rate.

I guess it depends on the type and how often. I have used much hardware that I have not broken just does not happen to be tapes. I do tend to be hard on things but I guess that comes with some benefits. If tapes are working for you then you are definitely luckier and more patient than I am.

[ImTheTypeOfGuy]

Count your blessings. Someone at your workplace must be favoured by the Gods. Our LTO robots have broken down many times..... and they ain't cheap brother.

Just to be clear, the tapes have been fine. The recording units have not been. I guess they spent a lot of money repairing a machine from the 90's that had broken and needed to be used to read from some of the earlier tapes.

I guess it depends on the type and how often. I have used much hardware that I have not broken just does not happen to be tapes. I do tend to be hard on things but I guess that comes with some benefits. If tapes are working for you then you are definitely luckier and more patient than I am.

I am sure you have. I was just giving you a hard time.

[jmwills]

I look at this from two viewpoints. The first is the use of questionably outdated technology (tapes)..yea, yea, I know they are still used but none of us with the exception of PcDoc have those types of funds available and secondly the amount of energy to run those drives.

As a hobbyist, I applaud the creativity but its the practical side that speaks to me.

[DesertServer]

Glad this stirred up a little debate on the subject. I've chosen to stay away from tape libraries, those little robots have way too many moving parts to be reliable at the price I'm looking at. I'm pretty sure it's not the 'best', or 'cheapest' solution to the problem. Actually the problem is rather obscure itself, I would have to have 2 hard drives fail within a fairly short period of time for the backup to even come into play, although a fire could do that.

Still searching for 64bit backup software that is free/reasonably priced/functional with tapes.. Also waiting on some of the hardware to arrive. I will post results of backup in regards to time/PITA factor which seems to be climbing..

Edited by DesertServer, 22 August 2012 - 02:11 PM.

[jmwills]

If you have Server 2008 (or any variation) the built in backup feature should work for you.

[ikon]

Just to be clear, the tapes have been fine. The recording units have not been. I guess they spent a lot of money repairing a machine from the 90's that had broken and needed to be used to read from some of the earlier tapes.

Well, to be real, I don't separate the recording medium from the recorder. One's no good without the other and, like I said, I've had a lot more trouble with tape drives than hard drives.

[jmwills]

Has anyone ever seen the life expectancy of tapes? Can't bee all that good. I think I heard CD's were good for about 10 years, DVD's a bit longer, and HDD's? Who knows.

[DesertServer]

Archival lifespan is 30+ years. Now that's not constant overwrites for 30 years. Write once and put it in a drawer..

[jem101]

If you have Server 2008 (or any variation) the built in backup feature should work for you.

It won't, the backup utility which is built into Server 2008R2 has dropped support for tape drives.

This is a bit of a pity really, the old NTbackup utility worked quite nicely with tape drives although a bit crude in comparison with BackupExec or ArcServe but certainly usable (and free) for small businesses. And in case you are thinking of it, no you can't install the old version onto Server 2008R2 - well actually you can but only for reading existing backups, it won't create new ones.

The two problems you are going to find are,

1) You will need to get software to handle the backups. The two which come to mind are BackupExec (my personal favourite) or ArcServe both of which are intended for the Enterprise market and have a price tag to match.

2) Hardware - although you can get hold of an LTO drive now, will you still be able to in a couple of years if you need to replace it. All the backup tapes in the world suddenly become useless if you can't easily get hold of something which is able to read them.

John

[jmwills]

Wasn't sure about the Windows Backup Utility supporting tape drives, but correct on Backup Exec....wonderful little program. About the only thing decent from Symantec.

I fully agree on the point about being able to restore data from a tape drive in 30 years. For example, do you think you could find a functioning Zip Drive now?