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    DA Document Manager?

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    #41 ikon

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    Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:54 AM

    FileCenter is really starting to scare me.

    I scanned Visa statements from Jan 2008 to the present into the program. Then I tried doing some test searches. The results are very hit-and-miss. I do have OCR turned on. I've told FileCenter to re-index several times. Still, when I do some searches, documents that I absolutely know contain the word I'm searching for, do not show up. Some documents containing the word show up, but others do not. On top of that, if I use Adobe Reader to open a PDF I know contains the word, and search using the Adobe search, it finds the word. I don't understand why FileCenter is not finding it.

    Unreliable seach in an e-document program is a no-go for me. The search absolutely has to be 100%. FileCenter is beginning to slide off my radar.

    I'm going to check to see if they have a forum that's helpful.

    Update1: well, they don't seem to have a forum, and their support documents don't seem terribly helpful.

    Update2: it appears to be the FileCenter OCR (I'm using Advanced) that isn't doing such a great job. When I use the ScanSnap OCR software it seems to work 100%. I'm busy using it to re-OCR all my previously scanned Visa statements. Really beginning to wonder what value-added FileCenter is giving me... may just go with the ScanSnap software suite.
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    #42 geek-accountant

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    Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:56 AM

    Strange, my testing showed the exact opposite. FileCenter was way better at OCR than ScanSnap. But neither will be 100%. Heck the industry leader Kofax who's price starts at $100,000+ for a low volume shop only claims something like 90%. My bet is FileCenter and ScanSnap are somewhere around 80-85%.

    How often are you building the index and is it up to date to include the document you are looking to find? In my experience, FileCenter was finding words on the back of my insurance statements which are full of small print on the entire page. If it could find words in that text, it was good enough for me. In the end, get what works for you. In my case, the way FileCenter handles the documents, allows me to never have to hand name documents and IMO a superior OCR, I went with FileCenter over ScanSnap and several others I tested.
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    #43 ikon

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    Posted 20 March 2012 - 06:24 AM

    Strange, my testing showed the exact opposite. FileCenter was way better at OCR than ScanSnap. But neither will be 100%. Heck the industry leader Kofax who's price starts at $100,000+ for a low volume shop only claims something like 90%. My bet is FileCenter and ScanSnap are somewhere around 80-85%.

    How often are you building the index and is it up to date to include the document you are looking to find? In my experience, FileCenter was finding words on the back of my insurance statements which are full of small print on the entire page. If it could find words in that text, it was good enough for me. In the end, get what works for you. In my case, the way FileCenter handles the documents, allows me to never have to hand name documents and IMO a superior OCR, I went with FileCenter over ScanSnap and several others I tested.


    Thanks for the feedback. After trying a few ways, I finally settled on opening the PDFs in Adobe Reader and doing a Ctrl+A to select all the text. What I found is that ScanSnap gets almost every word, and even most numbers, but FileCenter was missing more of the text & numbers. This is what finally convinced me ScanSnap is doing a better job. I wonder if it's a case of what version of ScanSnap is being used, since my scanner is very new? Does that methodology make sense to you?
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    #44 geek-accountant

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    Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:14 PM

    It would make sense that a newer version should do better, but FileCenter does a really good OCR job for me so I don't know what is going on for you. I am often amazed at what it found, even on the back pages with the tiny text. But again, I would say go with what works for you. The other thing I found while testing several document managers is personal preference and how the software fits into your workflow are something each person needs to determine on their own. I think it is like a keyboard or mouse. Look on Newegg, almost none of them get great ratings because no one product fits everyone.
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    #45 ikon

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    Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:56 AM

    I'm sure you're right. For example, I was starting to scan in old bills, etc. (like I'm sure many people do when first starting to digitize their records) and I was doing it one month at a time. I had completed the credit card statements going back to 2005 and was starting on the electrical invoices when it hit me that I could speed up the process, consolidate the invoices, have less files to deal with, and generally just tidy things up if I scanned in a whole year's worth of invoices/statements/bills etc. into a single PDF. So that's what I've been doing, and so far it's working great. The scanning goes really quickly.

    For the current year I've made a folder named "2012" and I'm scanning each month separately into it for now. Next year I'll use Acrobat to combine all the 2012 paperwork for a category (e.g. credit card) into 1 file and rename the "2012" folder to "2013". I'm sure this method would not be suitable for many other people, but it's working for me so far. :)

    BTW, at the moment I'm stapling multi-page monthly statements together, but having a bunch of stapled pages stacked on top of each other takes up a a lot of extra room. What do you do (if you do) to group multi-page statements?
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    #46 geek-accountant

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    Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:35 AM

    I'm not sure what you mean. For items like my phone bill, which can be 8 pages or more, I just scan it in as one PDF. Since I am now all caught up on old stuff, all I have to worry about is new paper. For new paper, it is immediately scanned and then put into a box for later shredding. The scanned version is routed to various folders depending on the type of item (FileCenter lets you create Cover Sheets which when OCR'd will do the routing). So, I am just scanning one document at a time and the number of pages don't matter.

    Now when I was doing the old stuff, I would group items by the number of pages. For example, if I had a bunch of cable bills and some where 2 pages and others were 1 page, I would group them by the number of pages and then tell the software to break the file at the correct number of pages. That way I could just dump a bunch of them into the scanner, but the resulting files would still be 1 file per document.
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    #47 ikon

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    Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:52 AM

    Ah. you're keeping monthly statements in separate PDF files. I've decided to keep an entire year's worth in a single PDF. For the current year, I'm scanning each month separately, but I will combine them into a single PDF next year.

    So your shredding your documents very shortly after scanning. My issue with that is a number of institutions I've spoken with say I have to retain the original - scanned copies are not acceptable. One of these is the tax dept. So, we're filing them, but, on multi-page statements, I staple the pages together. The staples add a lot of bulk to the thickness of the stack of statements. :(
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    #48 geek-accountant

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    Posted 23 March 2012 - 07:38 PM

    Tax dept? Yea, I shred all of mine fairly soon after scanning. I just don't want to hold on to the paper. Hopefully that doesn't cause problems down the road.
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    #49 Greg Welch

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    Posted 23 March 2012 - 10:07 PM

    Just had Glenn from DA / Archound reset my user ID, glad i put WHS V1 back in the mix as DA really is a great peice of software
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    #50 diehard

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    Posted 23 March 2012 - 10:39 PM

    Just had Glenn from DA / Archound reset my user ID, glad i put WHS V1 back in the mix as DA really is a great peice of software


    Glad to hear that.

    It was fun doing that extra podcast on DA a few years back with you.

    Keep me posted on your progress and experience.
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    #51 geek-accountant

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    Posted 24 March 2012 - 08:10 AM

    Wow, I am surprised they responded. I have sent them several e-mails and they never responded. Their product had some serious performance problems for me that they were actually working on a fix. Then they just shut off all communication. While I liked their product, their lack of response has lost them a customer.
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    #52 ikon

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    Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:08 PM

    Tax dept? Yea, I shred all of mine fairly soon after scanning. I just don't want to hold on to the paper. Hopefully that doesn't cause problems down the road.


    CRA - Canada Revenue Agency (equivalent to your IRS).

    I'm surprised you shred so soon. In my experience accountants are ultra conservative when it comes to things like paper trails.
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    #53 diehard

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    Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:29 PM

    Wow, I am surprised they responded. I have sent them several e-mails and they never responded. Their product had some serious performance problems for me that they were actually working on a fix. Then they just shut off all communication. While I liked their product, their lack of response has lost them a customer.


    You should contact the president directly Glenn Hansen [email protected]

    here is a quote of his email to me.

    We subcontracted the Customer Support for DA Document Manager out about a year ago. Based on the feedback, it appears that did not work out as we had anticipated. We will need to bring it back in house.


    Yes, a WHS 2011/SBS 2011 version is still under development. The final release date is still TBD.


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    #54 ikon

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    Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:34 PM

    Just had Glenn from DA / Archound reset my user ID, glad i put WHS V1 back in the mix as DA really is a great peice of software

    Glad to hear that.

    It was fun doing that extra podcast on DA a few years back with you.

    Keep me posted on your progress and experience.


    Interesting. I sent them an email on Mar 19 and have heard nothing. I specifically mentioned that I was looking at DA but was concerned that there didn't seem to be much activity on their site and I needed to be sure they would be around in the future.
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    #55 ikon

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    Posted 24 March 2012 - 01:01 PM

    You should contact the president directly Glenn Hansen [email protected]

    here is a quote of his email to me.

    We subcontracted the Customer Support for DA Document Manager out about a year ago. Based on the feedback, it appears that did not work out as we had anticipated. We will need to bring it back in house.


    Yes, a WHS 2011/SBS 2011 version is still under development. The final release date is still TBD.


    Thanks for the tip diehard. I've sent an email to Glen, and included my original email to [email protected] for his reference. Hopefully, we will see some activity re: DADM, especially a WHS2011 version.
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    #56 Greg Welch

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    Posted 24 March 2012 - 01:01 PM

    I suggested to Glenn to jump on the forum as well as get in touch with Dave for possible podcast.

    Would be a good way to liven up the product

    Hope he's does.:)
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    #57 ikon

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    Posted 24 March 2012 - 01:18 PM

    Just to avoid hammering Glen with repetition, here's the email I sent to him:

    Dear Mr. Hansen,
    I am a participant in the Home Server Show forums (http://homeserversho...er/page__st__40). I learned of DA Document Manager there and heard good things from a few of the members. I was particularly interested in learning about the status of a WHS2011 version of DADM.


    Like other forum members, however, I've become concerned about how viable DADM is for the future. I would like to add my voice to those you've heard from expressing concern about the status of DADM. From the web site and responsiveness of [email protected] and [email protected] I would say DADM appears to be abandonware.

    I would be interested to hear of updates to DADM. I would also like to suggest that a blog on the web site might be useful to quell concerns of potential customers (like me). It would also be helpful to update some of the info on the site. Saying that "Vail" will be available soon gives an impression of abandonment, since WHS2011 hasn't been called 'Vail' for a long time (it wouldn't hurt to correect the spelling mistake "Availabe" to "Available" either). I suggest updates on the status of a DA-WHS2011 Edition would be a fantastic topic for a blog.

    Below you will find an email I sent to [email protected] on Mar 19. I have yet to receive a response to it.

    Thanks very much for you time and attention.


    And here's the email I sent to [email protected]:

    I am just getting into electronic document storage for my family and I'm researching what software is the best fit. I heard good things about DA Document Manager so I visited your site. I have to say I'm a little concerned. It looks like the application has not been updated in some time and that it's not getting much attention.

    I'm concerned that, if I purchase it, it may not be there for me over the long term. Choosing an electronic filing system is significant because it will contain many years of data and it would be a minor disaster if the software was not kept up to date and it became unable to run on future versions of Windows.

    Am I being overly concerned? Are you still supporting/maintaining/developing DA Document Manager on a continuing basis?


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    #58 geek-accountant

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    Posted 24 March 2012 - 02:14 PM

    Well, I have moved on from them and their lack of response has lost a customer. I am sure Glen knew there were issues prior to your e-mail John. My guess is their focus has moved on to something else and they really are not interested in supporting this product. If they were, and Glen didn't know there was an issue, they have even deeper problems.

    ikon, I keep the important tax documents in a tax folder that never gets purged. Things like credit card statements, water bills, etc, I scan and shred right away. The scanned copy is good enough for me.
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    #59 ikon

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    Posted 16 April 2012 - 05:10 PM

    • I never got a response from Glen... c'est la vie, no DA Document Manager for me.
    • I have been quite happy with the Fujitsu software that comes with the ScanSnap S1500. It does a great job of OCR'ing my documents and I can find stuff really easily now. That took a bit of work. Apparently, to search PDF files using Windows Search, you need a file from Adobe called iFilter 9. Once that was installed, and a couple of reboots, I was able to start searching the scanned documents. If you can believe it, I had to actually RTFM. I feel a little dirty.
    • Just a couple of hours ago I used the archive to get the receipt for the Microsoft ARC keyboard I bought a couple weeks back — for some odd reason the 'm' key quit working. Took it, and the receipt, to the store and got a replacement, no hassles at all. :)

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    #60 geek-accountant

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    Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:01 PM

    Sounds good ikon, glad you found a solution that works for you.

    Like you, I am done with DA Document Manager since they never responded to my multiple e-mails. As far as I am concerned, they are a dead company I will not be doing business with in the future.
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