21 replies to this topic

[Server Grunt]

Taking a new shot at this

I am still in a thinking period and I would appreciate some additional input from you.
The reason is that some external factors have been changed and that I have discovered more of what I really need

Environment/Limitations
The space available only allows for one large tower and I have narrowed it down to a Lian li Armorsuit PC-P80 or PC-A70F – I also have some possibility to place a SAN box “remotely” in the network or in a small space in the same room

Usage scenarios and environment
As previously said the basic plan is to run a one box virtual environment using Server 2008 R2 as host and that would also manage my home NW environment, group policies etc.
Guests would include

• WHS2011 production server
• WHS 2011 test server
• W7 Production PC – work and play
• W7 test pc
• W8 test pc

Usage/tasks

• WHS for storage and back up
• W7 for work and gaming – see below (NEW)
• W7 or WHS for media management (transcoding, photo editing etc.)

Raid cards and SAN card
Previous suggestions was for one expensivehttp://www.newegg.co...N82E16816115095card to cover all of the 20 storage HDDs and 4 to 6 host and guest system SSD. Is this one card to prefer over 2 less expensive cards, concidering my usage scenarios
Now, to be able to accommodate the possible graphics cards I would probably need to remove one of the storage cages (5 HDDs) to house the SSDs at the bottom (this will also create a freeer cool air flow)
This would mean that any expansion would be in an external case that needs to be connected. eSata has already been discarded, but what about using a SAN card to connect?


Gaming
Now concerning gaming – I have realized that I would like to have some fairly high end gaming capabilities (read BF3 and similar) This would probably mean that I would insert 2 fairly large and hot graphic cards, in addition to the 1 (or 2) RAID cards (depending on set-up (separate discussion above) and a possible SAN card (see expansion above)

Would it be wise or even really possible to fit the hardware that would support server, transcoding and heavy gaming in a system that would run 24/7 365?
Wolud any reasonable system that fits in a fairly normal case and not being prohibitory expensive manage this?

Cooling
Both cases have a lot of fans and with the new possible gaming set-up I am also concidering CPU and GPU water cooling, using pre-assembled systems such as a corsair unit for CPU, but do not know what to use for GPU – are ther any integrated units. The CoolIT 180 Epic would be nice, though ;-)
The caveat is that I do not know the mounting capabilities of the cases for this.

Maybe a little bit of a confusing post but hope that you are able to give some input.

//Grunt

[pcdoc]

Taking a new shot at this

I am still in a thinking period and I would appreciate some additional input from you.
The reason is that some external factors have been changed and that I have discovered more of what I really need

Environment/Limitations
The space available only allows for one large tower and I have narrowed it down to a Lian li Armorsuit PC-P80 or PC-A70F – I also have some possibility to place a SAN box “remotely” in the network or in a small space in the same room

Usage scenarios and environment
As previously said the basic plan is to run a one box virtual environment using Server 2008 R2 as host and that would also manage my home NW environment, group policies etc.
Guests would include

• WHS2011 production server
• WHS 2011 test server
• W7 Production PC – work and play
• W7 test pc
• W8 test pc

Usage/tasks

• WHS for storage and back up
• W7 for work and gaming – see below (NEW)
• W7 or WHS for media management (transcoding, photo editing etc.)

Raid cards and SAN card
Previous suggestions was for one expensivehttp://www.newegg.co...N82E16816115095card to cover all of the 20 storage HDDs and 4 to 6 host and guest system SSD. Is this one card to prefer over 2 less expensive cards, concidering my usage scenarios
Now, to be able to accommodate the possible graphics cards I would probably need to remove one of the storage cages (5 HDDs) to house the SSDs at the bottom (this will also create a freeer cool air flow)
This would mean that any expansion would be in an external case that needs to be connected. eSata has already been discarded, but what about using a SAN card to connect?


Gaming
Now concerning gaming – I have realized that I would like to have some fairly high end gaming capabilities (read BF3 and similar) This would probably mean that I would insert 2 fairly large and hot graphic cards, in addition to the 1 (or 2) RAID cards (depending on set-up (separate discussion above) and a possible SAN card (see expansion above)

Would it be wise or even really possible to fit the hardware that would support server, transcoding and heavy gaming in a system that would run 24/7 365?
Wolud any reasonable system that fits in a fairly normal case and not being prohibitory expensive manage this?

Cooling
Both cases have a lot of fans and with the new possible gaming set-up I am also concidering CPU and GPU water cooling, using pre-assembled systems such as a corsair unit for CPU, but do not know what to use for GPU – are ther any integrated units. The CoolIT 180 Epic would be nice, though ;-)
The caveat is that I do not know the mounting capabilities of the cases for this.

Maybe a little bit of a confusing post but hope that you are able to give some input.

//Grunt

__________________________________________

Here is my two cents...

Raid cards and SAN card
Two cards to give you the same number of drives would not save you that much. Cards that handle 12 drives are in the ~$300 range so two of them just adds complications. In short, go with one card.


Gaming
With newly defined latency issues in multi-GPU, I would with one high end card. The more cards you put into the system to share lanes the more each device will begin to suffer. One high end raid and one high end GPU would be my vote.

Cooling

I assume (hopefully) you are not overclocking as this is a server/VM machine other than clock multipliers. Not sure which CPU but I would use the Corsair or a good air cooler. Definitely stay away from GPU water cooling.

[ikon]

Definitely stay away from GPU water cooling.

Curious why.

[Server Grunt]

Ikin, good question and I have actually once again re-thougt this once again and have concluded that I need to build separate boxes for server and gaming (and try to fit them in the space I have... oh the agonies ones have ;-D)

I am now looking into the gaming box separately

Any the gaming related question you can discard - but the server realted questions are still relevant....

Edited by Server Grunt, 02 December 2011 - 07:55 AM.

[ikon]

since serving and gaming are such different scenarios I think it makes sense to have separate boxes.

[pcdoc]

Curious why.

Several reason but primarily due to the inflexibility of removing the cards say if you upgrade the motherboard, and because it adds either a separate system or a much beefier system to keep the temps down on the CPU. Single radiator will not cut it as it actually increases the temps of the CPU.

[ikon]

Several reason but primarily due to the inflexibility of removing the cards say if you upgrade the motherboard, and because it adds either a separate system or a much beefier system to keep the temps down on the CPU. Single radiator will not cut it as it actually increases the temps of the CPU.

I've never done a home-brew water-cooled PC — I've thought about it many times, but always chickened out; that, and the prices scared me off too. As you know, I have a Corsair H70 in my current main desktop, but no way do I consider that even close to a home-brew setup.

Interesting that a single radiator isn't enough; I would think that would depend on the size of the fan and radiator, but I get your drift.

[no-control]

To further expand and comment. The biggest reason to not water cool a GPU is cost. The second is that its usually non transferable. You cant use the same block for a 6970 as a GTX570 etc...

Also GPUs pump out a lot more heat and therefore require much larger Rads that a single can provide (by single we mean a single 120mm) a typical nVidia GPU for example requires a minimum of 360mm or 480mm just for a single card + CPU.

Isolating components is less of an issue now with quick disconnects, but they can add some complexity and planning to the adventure.

Here's an H2O project I did about a year ago.

[Server Grunt]

Guys,

I have now stated to get down to my choices. The use cases, combined with the need for reliance and endurance (24/7) and speed – no speed bottlenecks

Revised Use case
run a one box virtual environment using Server 2008 R2 as host and that would also manage my home NW environment, group policies etc.
Guests would include

• WHS2011 production server
• WHS 2011 test server
• W7 Production PC – work and play
• W7 test pc
• W8 test pc

Usage/tasks

• WHS for storage and back up
• W7 for work
• W7 or WHS for media management (transcoding, photo editing etc.)

As you see i have reverted back on te gaming and will build a separate machine for that.

Decided

• Case: Lian Li PC-A77F
• External HDD cases: 4x Supermicro or 5x 3.5" Hotswap cages or ICYDoc (will do a last review check)
• Storage Drives: 20x WD Green Caviar 3TB 6Gb/s HDD
• System drives: 4x or 6x (2x3 in raid 5) OCZ Vertex 3 Series SATA III 2.5" SSD 120GB
• PSU: Corsair TX750M or SeaSonic X750 – maybe increase to SeaSonic 850W
• Memory: 4x 8GB G.Skill DDR3 (actual model will depend on Mobo)
• RAID: HighPoint 2760A
• Cooling:
  
• CPU Cooler: No control suggested Corsair CAFA70, but I am more into Noctua or Scythe) Watercooling in a server is, well, new to me and I know o little about it.
• Case cooler:: Start with Lian-li fans, and change them out for Scythe, SilenX, or Noctua fans if needed
• Extension card cooling: Extra fan mounted in case to cool Raid-card and optional GPU (if XEON)

Still Undecided

• CPU:
  
• 1 or 2 CPU – what is necessary and actually usefull?
• i7-2700 or Sandbridge-E or XEON E3-1230 or more powerful Xeon – Trying to figure out what will best suit my use case and the need for reliance and endurance (24/7) and speed – no speed bottlenecks

• Mobo: Depending on above, but consumer grade or server grade (Asus P8B WS?)??

• Ethernet: Would like to have two Ethernet connections or is having a pci-card with additional ethernet better?

What is your feedback on this?

/Grunt

[ImTheTypeOfGuy]

I can't comment on the CPU/MB but I would definitely try to get a MB with two NIC's. I like to maximize what is integrated. Obviously you will probably want more NIC's but pci slots are not abundant and multi-NIC cards are expensive.

[Server Grunt]

So then decided on ethernet: 2xEthernet Mobo
Another thing checked

Now only CPU decision and exact Mobo left.... only and only, just the core of teh whole thing ..but then = lift off!
So really would value your input!

/G

[pcdoc]

I would go with the following (but then again I am partial)

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813128506

and the 2700/2600 or wait a bit and get IVY bridge. Pricing should be about the same and it should be a bit faster.

[Server Grunt]

Hi,

Hope the new year has been good to you. My server build has been postponed by work and other things that comesa nd goes, but now i have finally gotten around to it again.
After some conciderations my partslist looks like this:

CPU: Intel® Core i7-2600 – As I understand it, this processor allows device pass through for virtual clients
LGA1155, Quad Core, 3.4Ghz, 8MB, 95W, Boxed w/fan

Process cooling: Noctua NH-U12P SE2 CPU Kylare – Or could a Corsair H-series water cooler be suitable?

Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3, Socket-1155 – As I understand it, this MB allows device pass through for virtual clients
ATX, Z68, DDR3, 3xPCIe(3.0)x16, CFX&SLI, SATA 6Gb/s,USB3.0,FW, VGA,DVI,HDMI, EFI

RAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 32GBkit (4x8GB) CL10 – Total: 32GB

GPU: Intel on-board

DVD: LG BH12LS38 Super Multi Blue - BD-RE - Serial ATA
SATA, DVD±R: 24x, DVD+RW: 8x, DVD-RW: 6x, Bulk, BLACK

Harddrives: 4 x OCZ SSD Vertex 3 Series 2,5" 240GB – ” System disks ” in 2x2 RAID1 configurations, one for Host and one for clients
1 x Chieftec SATA/SAS Backplane CTM-1042SAS + 1 x 5.25" bay for 4 x 2.5" S-ATA/SAS HDD, Hot-Swap, Aluminium
3 x Supermicro 5x 3.5" Hotswap cages


Raid: HighPoint 2760A

PSU: Corsair TX 850W PSU
ATX 12V V2.31, 80 Plus Bronze, Modular, 4x 6+2-pin PCIe, 8x SATA, 140mm Fan

Case: Lian Li PC-A77F

What do you think about this list?

Also, does any bodu knows if there has been any PC expander-cards for Thunderbolt?


BR,
Grunt

[Server Grunt]

Bumping this re-initiated subject
Please see my last post above

/Grunt



This forum doesn't move that fast, there is no reason to bump a thread that has only moved down 4 slots since yesterday's post. TY - nc

Edited by no-control, 19 January 2012 - 09:49 PM.

[ikon]

That's still an awfully powerful server! I'm not sure about using the embedded GPU for photo editing; transcoding sure, but it might lag a bit on photo editing, depending on how demanding your editing will be.

[Server Grunt]

All!!

With this final post I am closing the thread.
I have included my final build list, below, and as someone pointed out - this is a very powerful server and I hope that it will do its job for a long time.
Now I am busy trying to really explore the best optioons on virtualization - (see my post under that are here in the forum)

Once again - Thank you so much for your time and effort in helping me out!

Br,
HomesServer Grunt


Final Build

CPU: Intel® Core i7-2600
LGA1155, Quad Core, 3.4Ghz, 8MB, 95W, Boxed w/fan

CPU Cooling: Corsair H80 Hydro Series

Motherboard: Asrock Z68 Extreme7 Gem3, Socket-1155
- ATX, Z68, DDR3, 3xPCIe(3.0)x16, CFX&SLI, SATA 6Gb/s,USB3.0,FW, VGA,DVI,HDMI, EFI - Dual NIC

RAM: Ripjaw: F3-10666CL9Q-32GBXL - Total: 32GB

DVD: LG BH12LS38 Super Multi Blue - BD-RE - Serial ATA
SATA, DVD±R: 24x, DVD+RW: 8x, DVD-RW: 6x, Bulk, BLACK

HDD: 4 x– Intel 520-Series 240GB ” System drives ”
2 x MB994SP-4S SATA/SAS Backplane - 1 x 5.25" bay for 4 x 2.5" S-ATA/SAS HDD, Hot-Swap, Aluminium
3 x MB-455SPF 5x 3.5" Hotswap cages

Raid: HighPoint 2760A - Raid kort

PSU: Corsair AX 850W PSU
ATX 12V V2.31, 80 Plus Gold, Modular, 4x 6+2-pin PCIe, 12x SATA

CASE: Lian Li PC-A77F

GPU: Gigabyte Radeon HD 6770 1GB (GV-R677SL-1GD)
PCI-Express 2.1, "Passively Cooled", 1xDVI, mini-HDMI, DP

Extra:

• Lian Li W3 Full Tower Case Aluminum Carriage Tray – facilitates handling
• Case and HW-sound managemnet
• Possible extra fan for improved air flow over PCI-cards

Edited by Server Grunt, 14 February 2012 - 06:11 AM.

[ikon]

Sounds like you're pretty satisfied with it.

[pcdoc]

All!!

With this final post I am closing the thread.
I have included my final build list, below, and as someone pointed out - this is a very powerful server and I hope that it will do its job for a long time.
Now I am busy trying to really explore the best optioons on virtualization - (see my post under that are here in the forum)

Once again - Thank you so much for your time and effort in helping me out!

Br,
HomesServer Grunt


Final Build

CPU: Intel® Core i7-2600
LGA1155, Quad Core, 3.4Ghz, 8MB, 95W, Boxed w/fan

CPU Cooling: Corsair H80 Hydro Series

Motherboard: Asrock Z68 Extreme7 Gem3, Socket-1155
- ATX, Z68, DDR3, 3xPCIe(3.0)x16, CFX&SLI, SATA 6Gb/s,USB3.0,FW, VGA,DVI,HDMI, EFI - Dual NIC

RAM: Ripjaw: F3-10666CL9Q-32GBXL - Total: 32GB

DVD: LG BH12LS38 Super Multi Blue - BD-RE - Serial ATA
SATA, DVD±R: 24x, DVD+RW: 8x, DVD-RW: 6x, Bulk, BLACK

HDD: 4 x– Intel 520-Series 240GB ” System drives ”
2 x MB994SP-4S SATA/SAS Backplane - 1 x 5.25" bay for 4 x 2.5" S-ATA/SAS HDD, Hot-Swap, Aluminium
3 x MB-455SPF 5x 3.5" Hotswap cages

Raid: HighPoint 2760A - Raid kort

PSU: Corsair AX 850W PSU
ATX 12V V2.31, 80 Plus Gold, Modular, 4x 6+2-pin PCIe, 12x SATA

CASE: Lian Li PC-A77F

GPU: Gigabyte Radeon HD 6770 1GB (GV-R677SL-1GD)
PCI-Express 2.1, "Passively Cooled", 1xDVI, mini-HDMI, DP

Extra:

• Lian Li W3 Full Tower Case Aluminum Carriage Tray – facilitates handling
• Case and HW-sound managemnet
• Possible extra fan for improved air flow over PCI-cards

Nice. You will not run out of power anytime soon. Good luck with it. Posts some pics before you end this thread. Thanks for the update.

[Server Grunt]

I will post as soon as I am done with the build.

[ikon]

I will post as soon as I am done with the build.

Look forward to seeing them.