Jump to content

  •  

  • Photo

    WHS 2011 Storage Strategy


    • Please log in to reply
    181 replies to this topic

    #21 geek-accountant

    geek-accountant

      HSS Advanced

    • HSS Writers
    • 871 posts
    • LocationAtlanta Area

    Posted 22 February 2011 - 09:48 PM

    So why unRAID versus RAID 5?




    For me, speed is not a major concern. Yea I need enough to stream movies around the network, sometimes more than 1 at a time, but for me getting every last bit of speed possible is not a real issue and not something that is going to make a real difference day in and day out. Sure large file transfers may take a bit longer, but how often am I sitting there waiting for the transfer to complete with noting else to do?

    So the real issue for me was efficient protection (ie, parity drive), ability to use varying sized drives, easy expansion, ability to remove drive and read data from another system if ever needed, array not destroyed by multiple drive failures. Does this feature set sound familiar?

    RAID 5 meets some of these but fails on others. unRAID meets all of these. So it was an easy decision and actually one I made prior to learning about DE being removed from WHS.
    • 0

    unRAID server 18.5TB
    WSS-2011 5TB internal + 4x3TB RAID 5 Mediasonic USB 3.0 external storage
    Hyper-V server running 10 VM's(AMD 6 core with 16gig of ram - Raid 5 & Raid 0, plus USB 3 Mediasonic 4 drive enclosure)
    pfSense & Untangle (aka, SUPER ROUTER) running as seperate machines
    Broadcast server - broadcast the jpeg2RAW podcast - AMD 8 core 4Ghz, 8gig DDR3 1600, RAID 0
    The jpeg2RAW podcast site


    #22 ImTheTypeOfGuy

    ImTheTypeOfGuy

      HSS Master

    • Donating Member
    • 2,412 posts
    • LocationhOUston

    Posted 22 February 2011 - 09:51 PM

    For me, speed is not a major concern. Yea I need enough to stream movies around the network, sometimes more than 1 at a time, but for me getting every last bit of speed possible is not a real issue and not something that is going to make a real difference day in and day out. Sure large file transfers may take a bit longer, but how often am I sitting there waiting for the transfer to complete with noting else to do?

    So the real issue for me was efficient protection (ie, parity drive), ability to use varying sized drives, easy expansion, ability to remove drive and read data from another system if ever needed, array not destroyed by multiple drive failures. Does this feature set sound familiar?

    RAID 5 meets some of these but fails on others. unRAID meets all of these. So it was an easy decision and actually one I made prior to learning about DE being removed from WHS.



    I will have to do some more research on this. Sounds very interesting.

    Have you ran any tests on read/write speeds?
    • 0
    ITTOG


    - WHS V1: Dell XPS 420; Quad Core @ 2.66 GHz; 4 GB RAM
    - S2008R2: Lian Li PC-A70F, EVGA X58 3X SLI, i7 920 @ 2.67 GHz; 12 GB RAM, 2 x 250 GB WD Black Caviar in IcyDock Enclosure with Raid 1, EVGA GeForce GT 240, 12TB RAID5
    - HTPC: Silverstone Lascala, Gigabyte GA-H55-USB3, i3 530 @ 2.93 GHz, 4 GB Ram, 60 GB OCZ Vertex 2 SSD, 12TB RAID5
    - Personal Desktop: Lian Li PC-9F, ASUS Sabertooth P67, i7 2600k @ 4.1 GHz, 16 GB RAM, 2 x 120 GB OCZ Vertex 2 SSD's in Raid 0, EVGA GTX580
    - Kids Desktop: Dell Dimension 8400 Pentium 4 560, 3.6GHz, 2 GB RAM - Lets not forget this beauty!
    - Other Devices: iPad, Boxee Box, XBox's, PS3, Wii, and HP TouchPad

    #23 geek-accountant

    geek-accountant

      HSS Advanced

    • HSS Writers
    • 871 posts
    • LocationAtlanta Area

    Posted 22 February 2011 - 09:52 PM

    Can you run raid five with 4 drives? I thought you would need 5 for a parity. I am sure i have this wrong (getting old =)



    You can run RAID 5 with 3 drives of you want. I have a three drive RAID 5 setup running right now in my Hyper-V server. I think it just has to be more than two.
    • 0

    unRAID server 18.5TB
    WSS-2011 5TB internal + 4x3TB RAID 5 Mediasonic USB 3.0 external storage
    Hyper-V server running 10 VM's(AMD 6 core with 16gig of ram - Raid 5 & Raid 0, plus USB 3 Mediasonic 4 drive enclosure)
    pfSense & Untangle (aka, SUPER ROUTER) running as seperate machines
    Broadcast server - broadcast the jpeg2RAW podcast - AMD 8 core 4Ghz, 8gig DDR3 1600, RAID 0
    The jpeg2RAW podcast site


    #24 geek-accountant

    geek-accountant

      HSS Advanced

    • HSS Writers
    • 871 posts
    • LocationAtlanta Area

    Posted 22 February 2011 - 09:58 PM

    I will have to do some more research on this. Sounds very interesting.

    Have you ran any tests on read/write speeds?



    Very limited. One thing I just added was a cache drive. Which means all data, unless you tell it not to, is written to the cache drive and then latter added to the protected array and an off time. What this means is you get the full speed of that one drive, but it also means the data is not protected while sitting on the cache drive. For this reason, I have my Photos folder set to not use the cache drive.

    Without a cache drive, the data is written to the array based on the slowest drive, either the parity or the drive being written too. Because of this, I want to slowly work out my 5400 & 5900 drives with the parity being first. Right now, my parity drive is a 5400rpm drive. Yea, I know I didn't plan this out very well.

    I plan to do some speed testing at some point and will report back then.
    • 0

    unRAID server 18.5TB
    WSS-2011 5TB internal + 4x3TB RAID 5 Mediasonic USB 3.0 external storage
    Hyper-V server running 10 VM's(AMD 6 core with 16gig of ram - Raid 5 & Raid 0, plus USB 3 Mediasonic 4 drive enclosure)
    pfSense & Untangle (aka, SUPER ROUTER) running as seperate machines
    Broadcast server - broadcast the jpeg2RAW podcast - AMD 8 core 4Ghz, 8gig DDR3 1600, RAID 0
    The jpeg2RAW podcast site


    #25 jvk

    jvk

      HSS Pro

    • HSS Writers
    • 212 posts
    • LocationSan Diego

    Posted 22 February 2011 - 10:22 PM

    My strategy is pretty simple... no raid here. I'll be relying on the sever backup function for my duplication. I'll set it at 2 times per day.

    For my data drives, I'll be running 2 1TB Western Digital 2.5" (WD10TPVT) drives.

    The OS will reside on a 320 GB Western Digital (WD3200BEKT) 2.5" drive.

    I'll then plug in a hard drive dock to my Server via USB like this one and always have a 2 TB 3.5" drive in the dock. I'll have an additional 2 TB 3.5" drive at work to act as my co-location strategy. Then VIA sneaker-net I'll switch the drives out ever other week or so.

    jvk
    • 0

    #26 pcdoc

    pcdoc

      HSS Legend

    • Moderators
    • 3,953 posts
    • LocationLos Angeles, California

    Posted 23 February 2011 - 01:24 AM

    My strategy is pretty simple... no raid here. I'll be relying on the sever backup function for my duplication. I'll set it at 2 times per day.

    For my data drives, I'll be running 2 1TB Western Digital 2.5" (WD10TPVT) drives.

    The OS will reside on a 320 GB Western Digital (WD3200BEKT) 2.5" drive.

    I'll then plug in a hard drive dock to my Server via USB like this one and always have a 2 TB 3.5" drive in the dock. I'll have an additional 2 TB 3.5" drive at work to act as my co-location strategy. Then VIA sneaker-net I'll switch the drives out ever other week or so.

    jvk


    Very sound. Nice strategy and should work fine.
    • 0

    Main Server - WHS 2011, Core I5-2500, 12T RAID 5 (5x3T) + 2T of Mirror + 2T of backup
    Second Server - 2012, Core I5-2500, 12T RAID 5
    Main Systems - Core I5-4770, 16 Gigs DDR3-1600, 180 Gig Intel 330 SSD. 240 Gig Intel 520, 3T Seagate - Other systems - Core I7-2600, 2 x Core I5-2500, Core I5-4570S, Core I3-2100, and G620

    My Blog - The Doc's World
    Tablet Resource - BYOB Videos - TheBYOBPodcast

    For More Information:

    Computer Systems

    Home Network


    #27 pcdoc

    pcdoc

      HSS Legend

    • Moderators
    • 3,953 posts
    • LocationLos Angeles, California

    Posted 23 February 2011 - 01:29 AM

    Did a chart for a friend to illustrate a point. Not earth shattering by an eye opener. The prices used in here are a bit conservative but it gets a point across and he found it useful so I thought I would share it.


    Posted Image
    • 0

    Main Server - WHS 2011, Core I5-2500, 12T RAID 5 (5x3T) + 2T of Mirror + 2T of backup
    Second Server - 2012, Core I5-2500, 12T RAID 5
    Main Systems - Core I5-4770, 16 Gigs DDR3-1600, 180 Gig Intel 330 SSD. 240 Gig Intel 520, 3T Seagate - Other systems - Core I7-2600, 2 x Core I5-2500, Core I5-4570S, Core I3-2100, and G620

    My Blog - The Doc's World
    Tablet Resource - BYOB Videos - TheBYOBPodcast

    For More Information:

    Computer Systems

    Home Network


    #28 jvk

    jvk

      HSS Pro

    • HSS Writers
    • 212 posts
    • LocationSan Diego

    Posted 23 February 2011 - 09:38 AM

    Did a chart for a friend to illustrate a point. Not earth shattering by an eye opener. The prices used in here are a bit conservative but it gets a point across and he found it useful so I thought I would share it.


    Posted Image

    That's a pretty useful chart... You should do some whs installation consulting.

    jvk
    • 0

    #29 Andne

    Andne

      HSS Star

    • Members
    • 98 posts
    • LocationIowa

    Posted 23 February 2011 - 09:56 AM

    I'll then plug in a hard drive dock to my Server via USB like this one and always have a 2 TB 3.5" drive in the dock. I'll have an additional 2 TB 3.5" drive at work to act as my co-location strategy. Then VIA sneaker-net I'll switch the drives out ever other week or so.


    One thing that I've been wondering that I haven't yet gotten around to figuring out is how easy is it to switch between two backup drives. I am planning to take this same approach, but haven't tried it. Do you have to reconfigure backup every time to use the new drive, or can I set both drives as backup and it just uses the one that it finds? (Hopefully without complain too much about the other one). Guess I need to get another external drive so I can set this up and try it out.
    • 0

    #30 no-control

    no-control

      HSS Elite

    • BYOB Podcasters
    • 1,782 posts
    • LocationSoCal

    Posted 23 February 2011 - 11:18 AM

    Been playing with this idea for a while, but it changes every 5 minutes still.

    2 - 1TB RAID 1 System & Data
    1 - 2TB backup for the above
    4 - 2TB RAID 5 for media


    Still debating to use WHS2011 and/or SBSe Or virtualize it all in the WS2K8 box

    • 0

    VISIT MY NEW BLOG
    Find me on the internet

    I've been censored by the HSS

    #31 geek-accountant

    geek-accountant

      HSS Advanced

    • HSS Writers
    • 871 posts
    • LocationAtlanta Area

    Posted 23 February 2011 - 11:40 AM

    no-control, I vote for virtualizing both in WS2K8!
    • 0

    unRAID server 18.5TB
    WSS-2011 5TB internal + 4x3TB RAID 5 Mediasonic USB 3.0 external storage
    Hyper-V server running 10 VM's(AMD 6 core with 16gig of ram - Raid 5 & Raid 0, plus USB 3 Mediasonic 4 drive enclosure)
    pfSense & Untangle (aka, SUPER ROUTER) running as seperate machines
    Broadcast server - broadcast the jpeg2RAW podcast - AMD 8 core 4Ghz, 8gig DDR3 1600, RAID 0
    The jpeg2RAW podcast site


    #32 jvk

    jvk

      HSS Pro

    • HSS Writers
    • 212 posts
    • LocationSan Diego

    Posted 23 February 2011 - 01:11 PM

    One thing that I've been wondering that I haven't yet gotten around to figuring out is how easy is it to switch between two backup drives. I am planning to take this same approach, but haven't tried it. Do you have to reconfigure backup every time to use the new drive, or can I set both drives as backup and it just uses the one that it finds? (Hopefully without complain too much about the other one). Guess I need to get another external drive so I can set this up and try it out.

    I was wondering that myself as well. I know it complains when you remove a backup drive, but if you have two separate drives (one plugged in at all times)I don't know if it will be ok if one of the two is working... will have to test it out as soon as I can scrounge up another drive.

    jvk
    • 0

    #33 jmwills

    jmwills

      HSS Genius

    • Donating Member
    • 6,908 posts
    • LocationHuntsville, AL

    Posted 23 February 2011 - 01:21 PM

    One nice thing about stepping up to Essentials is that with a second server you could use it as a secondary file server and when incorporating DFS (Distributed File System), all of the shares will appear to be on one box. For some this could mean making the primary box a much smaller installation. This would however, mean the incorporation of a domain, nit such a big deal as the install process does this for you.

    Nice chart...pcdoc.
    • 0

    Windows 7 Desktop - Antec 100 Case, Intel D8H67BL, OCZ 550W PSU, Intel i3-530 CPU w/16GB G-Skill DDR3 1333 RAM
    Server 2012 - Fractal Arc Midi, CoolerMaster M600 PSU, ASUS P8H67V, Intel i5-2500 CPU w/32GBG-Skill DDR3 1333 RAM, 90 GIG OCZ SSD OS Drive – Roles: Hyper-V (WHS-SharePoint-DC-SQL-Exchange-WSE 2012R2), Print Server - Rocket RAID 2720 4 x 3TB WD Red
    HTPC Build - Silverstone GD05 Case,x 2
    Travel Laptop: Lenovo U310 13.3" Windows 8.1


    #34 CablDeViL

    CablDeViL

      HSS Champion

    • Donating Member
    • 466 posts
    • LocationNJ

    Posted 24 February 2011 - 11:03 AM

    My strategy is pretty simple... no raid here. I'll be relying on the sever backup function for my duplication. I'll set it at 2 times per day.

    For my data drives, I'll be running 2 1TB Western Digital 2.5" (WD10TPVT) drives.

    The OS will reside on a 320 GB Western Digital (WD3200BEKT) 2.5" drive.

    I'll then plug in a hard drive dock to my Server via USB like this one and always have a 2 TB 3.5" drive in the dock. I'll have an additional 2 TB 3.5" drive at work to act as my co-location strategy. Then VIA sneaker-net I'll switch the drives out ever other week or so.

    jvk


    Why not just mirror the 1 tb with the other 1tb in disk manager?
    • 0
    WHS2011 Build - Asus M3N72-D Mother Board - AMD 9950 - 4gig Patriot Ram - Corsair HX650 Psu - 2 WD 250 Blacks in a IcyDock MB982SPR-2S in Mirror - High Point Rocket Raid 2680 - 5 2tb EARS in Raid 5 - 2 2tb EARS and 1 EADS in Raid 5 - One 2tb Sammy for internal back ups - Two 1TB WD Backs - Two USB3 Seagate GoFlex 3tb external for Sneaker net backups - Carbonite installed for cloud back ups on the server.

    R.I.P WHS V1

    Main Rig - TBA

    #35 dvn

    dvn

      HSS Elite

    • Moderators
    • 1,735 posts

    Posted 24 February 2011 - 01:45 PM

    One nice thing about stepping up to Essentials is that with a second server you could use it as a secondary file server and when incorporating DFS (Distributed File System), all of the shares will appear to be on one box. For some this could mean making the primary box a much smaller installation. This would however, mean the incorporation of a domain, nit such a big deal as the install process does this for you.

    Nice chart...pcdoc.

    That sounds good. When can we expect a write-up on the set-up and config? We'll be needing network charts, pie charts... :P jk...

    Why not just mirror the 1 tb with the other 1tb in disk manager?

    Disk space on server, backup scheme that includes moving the data offsite, the opportunity to use the old-school term 'sneaker-net'... haha
    • 0

    #36 jvk

    jvk

      HSS Pro

    • HSS Writers
    • 212 posts
    • LocationSan Diego

    Posted 24 February 2011 - 02:11 PM

    Why not just mirror the 1 tb with the other 1tb in disk manager?

    Because I want a 2 TB data pool, I think mirroring 2 1TB drives would only yield 1 TB total but please correct me if I'm wrong.

    jvk
    • 0

    #37 jmwills

    jmwills

      HSS Genius

    • Donating Member
    • 6,908 posts
    • LocationHuntsville, AL

    Posted 24 February 2011 - 02:34 PM

    You sir, would be correct. To achieve what you want, a mirror (RAID 1) of 2 x 2TB drives would be needed.
    • 0

    Windows 7 Desktop - Antec 100 Case, Intel D8H67BL, OCZ 550W PSU, Intel i3-530 CPU w/16GB G-Skill DDR3 1333 RAM
    Server 2012 - Fractal Arc Midi, CoolerMaster M600 PSU, ASUS P8H67V, Intel i5-2500 CPU w/32GBG-Skill DDR3 1333 RAM, 90 GIG OCZ SSD OS Drive – Roles: Hyper-V (WHS-SharePoint-DC-SQL-Exchange-WSE 2012R2), Print Server - Rocket RAID 2720 4 x 3TB WD Red
    HTPC Build - Silverstone GD05 Case,x 2
    Travel Laptop: Lenovo U310 13.3" Windows 8.1


    #38 CablDeViL

    CablDeViL

      HSS Champion

    • Donating Member
    • 466 posts
    • LocationNJ

    Posted 24 February 2011 - 03:47 PM

    Because I want a 2 TB data pool, I think mirroring 2 1TB drives would only yield 1 TB total but please correct me if I'm wrong.

    jvk


    That makes sense - it would be nice if I read more before I post =)
    • 0
    WHS2011 Build - Asus M3N72-D Mother Board - AMD 9950 - 4gig Patriot Ram - Corsair HX650 Psu - 2 WD 250 Blacks in a IcyDock MB982SPR-2S in Mirror - High Point Rocket Raid 2680 - 5 2tb EARS in Raid 5 - 2 2tb EARS and 1 EADS in Raid 5 - One 2tb Sammy for internal back ups - Two 1TB WD Backs - Two USB3 Seagate GoFlex 3tb external for Sneaker net backups - Carbonite installed for cloud back ups on the server.

    R.I.P WHS V1

    Main Rig - TBA

    #39 skid

    skid

      HSS 1 Post Wonder

    • Members
    • 7 posts
    • LocationCalif

    Posted 26 February 2011 - 03:20 AM

    Why not just mirror the 1 tb with the other 1tb in disk manager?


    I am currently running 2-1TB drives using one for data and the other for backup. I think I will try your idea and mirror the data drive from disk manager.
    (The OS is on a 3rd 250GB drive)
    • 0

    #40 pcdoc

    pcdoc

      HSS Legend

    • Moderators
    • 3,953 posts
    • LocationLos Angeles, California

    Posted 27 February 2011 - 11:24 AM

    Mirroring makes sense if you want reduncy, however if you want to backup from multiple sources, you will need to a backup. Another words if all you have is 2T of and do not plan to add more drives, just mirror and forget it. Bear in mind that mirroring does not protect you against destruction, such as viruses, corruption, acidental deletions etc. My suggestion is Mirror and backup. Use 2x 2T in a mirror, then back that up to a third 2T. This gives you even better protection than DE, quicker perforance, and no down time at all.
    • 0

    Main Server - WHS 2011, Core I5-2500, 12T RAID 5 (5x3T) + 2T of Mirror + 2T of backup
    Second Server - 2012, Core I5-2500, 12T RAID 5
    Main Systems - Core I5-4770, 16 Gigs DDR3-1600, 180 Gig Intel 330 SSD. 240 Gig Intel 520, 3T Seagate - Other systems - Core I7-2600, 2 x Core I5-2500, Core I5-4570S, Core I3-2100, and G620

    My Blog - The Doc's World
    Tablet Resource - BYOB Videos - TheBYOBPodcast

    For More Information:

    Computer Systems

    Home Network





    Skins By Invisioneers