46 replies to this topic

[ImTheTypeOfGuy]

I thought it was because they were having problems with file corruption just like when v1 was initially released.

[pcdoc]

Very interesting however I want eveyone to recall the data corruption bug. Cool idea but this may need more beta testing than 2011.

[Marty]

This is very interesting. I hope they have the technical expertise to pull it off and support it. If they are starting from "scratch", they will likely run into many of the same issues Microsoft did, so it may take some time to work all the kinks out.

Regarding the questions about Microsoft pulling DE from WHS 2011, I think it goes beyond the technical implications and into the business model. This Acer quote from the Microsoft Connect email says quite a bit along those lines:

“We're excited to offer this new and improved, easy-to-use OS on our Aspire easyStore Home Server this Spring. Designed for households and small businesses with multiple PCs, Aspire easyStore offers a simple way to network computers, centralize, share and protect digital data as well as access it remotely from anywhere in the world."

**Designed for households AND SMALL BUSINESSES**, Acer is targeting Windows Home Server for _business_ use. That's right - a _Home_ server for _Business_ use. I suspected that something like this would happen when I started reading that WHS v1 was being used for small business desktop backup and to backup SBS servers. In addition, Microsoft claimed that the reason they were dropping DE from WHS 2011 was because they couldn't get it to work well with some _business_ applications.

Problem is, Microsoft already has a small _business_ server - Small Business Server - with SBS 2011 coming in multiple versions for various sized small businesses. It is not clear where WHS will ultimately fit in the SBS eco-system. My guess is that it won't - small businesses don't want to buy _home_ products, they want to buy lower end/cost _business_ products.

In addition to DE not working technically (-assuming Microsoft even tried-) in WHS 2011, DE in a _business_ environment would impact the sales strategy for Microsoft and its hardware partners, like HP, Acer, etc. Think about the now discontinued HP MediaSmart WHS systems. With DE out of the picture, small businesses wanting to use WHS 2011 in a real _business_ environment, will now have to buy higher cost storage - RAID type hardware solutions (in HP's case, think ProLiant/RAID instead of MediaSmart/DE - quite a cost difference).

The bottom line is that I fear we are seeing the end of the Windows _Home_ Server. I suspect the next version of WHS 2011 will get renamed, losing the _Home_ designation as it dissolves into the SBS eco-system. Microsoft is heading to their _business_ customers, and further away from consumers and _home_ media eco-systems. WHS with DE was a perfect platform to build a consumer based home/living room media eco-system, with WHS/DE as a central server appliance and XBox 360 as the end point. Microsoft has only themselves to blame if they find they can't compete with Apple, Google, etc. in the home living room.

Hopefully third parties can step up and create reliable DE clone add-ins for WHS 2011. Although, I am a bit skeptical, because DE is core to the OS and I think it will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a third-party DE solution to be technically equivalent (performance, robustness, etc.) to a Microsoft developed DE for WHS 2011.

[harryf]

Hmmm just found this www.drivebender.com
Would appear there is more that one option??

[BSR]

Interesting -- I would love for someone to "fix" WHS2011 in this way and bring that functionality back. I would also love to see a smaller developer teach Microsoft a thing or two. Sometimes they can achieve things that larger slower-moving organizations just can't seem to do. I don't know if it's too much product development "by committee" or some piece of the product doesn't fit with long term goals, but it's frustrating seeing something that worked this well just go away.

That said, I'm with Geek Accountant on waiting a LONG time to see these product thoroughly tested and proven under real-world use before I trust it with my (and my customer's) data.

[jam3ohio]

So I will be the first to say it...not a snow balls chance this ever gets out of beta in our life time. There..its been said. I'm sure we will all have fun testing it.

Let's see, hundreds of thousands of $$ are spend at Microsoft to get it right, twice, and we still don't have a working product. Could it really be that easy?

Needless to say, I'm not believing this just yet. Just saying...

Jim--

I think you are right. This developer has exactly zero shipping commercial products right now. That much being said, let's see what happens here. We lose nothing by keeping an eye on this and using testbeds to help test this out...


Jim

[HSS-Dave]

Yes, but I thought the part they couldn't get right was the running of certain business apps. My understanding was that for the normal home server user, DE worked fine in v2. Did I miss something?

Do we care if it will run business apps? As long as the throughput is good enough for some high bitrate Blu-Ray and you don't mangle a single file I say go for it. Develop away!

[HSS-Dave]

So I will be the first to say it...not a snow balls chance this ever gets out of beta in our life time. There..its been said. I'm sure we will all have fun testing it.

Let's see, hundreds of thousands of $$$ are spend at Microsoft to get it right, twice, and we still don't have a working product. Could it really be that easy?

Needless to say, I'm not believing this just yet. Just saying...

If every little company in the world thought that we would have zero innovation. Who am I to say a little guy can't code up a DE app? Maybe MS did it wrong. I say twirl that sling shot David. Goliath is in your cross hairs!

[kermi]

Do we care if it will run business apps? As long as the throughput is good enough for some high bitrate Blu-Ray and you don't mangle a single file I say go for it. Develop away!

Seriously.. high-bitrate Blu-Ray uses something like 4 MB/s on average. You have to screw up specatulary not to manage that.
Now if you'll start streaming five of them at the same time, you might run into some troubles with fragmentation and seek times..

Edited by kermi, 12 February 2011 - 09:47 AM.

[ikon]

Hopefully third parties can step up and create reliable DE clone add-ins for WHS 2011. Although, I am a bit skeptical, because DE is core to the OS and I think it will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a third-party DE solution to be technically equivalent (performance, robustness, etc.) to a Microsoft developed DE for WHS 2011.

I think this may be the key; maybe StableBit Drive Pool won't be the core of the OS, but rather a 'guest' drive management system. If you have it work on specific drives only (much like you can now with DE), and it is NOT the core drive manager of the system, it might be possible to have the rest of the system handle business apps properly by not letting them use the drive pool area. We could, maybe, end of with the best of both worlds: backups, folder duplication, and use of dissimilar drives in a drive pool, AND reliable use of business servers like Exchange, Sharepoint, Project, etc. Now THAT would be very cool.

[britishbob]

If every little company in the world thought that we would have zero innovation. Who am I to say a little guy can't code up a DE app? Maybe MS did it wrong. I say twirl that sling shot David. Goliath is in your cross hairs!

I would further add that perhaps a fresh eye is what was needed. Perhaps someone can see what M.S. couldn't

[geek-accountant]

I am all for these guys trying to make this add-in and I hope they are successful. It's just going to be a LONG time before I would trust any real data to something like this.

The problem for with something like this, is I can set up and test box and run it for a while and it just might work. But it's those problems down the road that don't appear right away that worry me. Also, how would the uninstall of something like this happen once you have grown your storage a good bit.

The little guy often can do things the big guys can't and just because someone else failed doesn't mean you shouldn't try. I wish these guys luck and I look forward to reading about everyone else's experiences with the product.

[ikon]

You guys should check out this post by Dave: http://homeserversho...extender-clone/

[Bog O]

Is anyone other than me having a real problem with their website? I hope my data isn't mangled that badly.

Like Drive Bender, I love the idea, (Just like I loved the same idea in WHS v1) but I need to see some test results before I try it with "production" data.

[no-control]

I'll save most of this for Tuesday

Do we care if it will run business apps? As long as the throughput is good enough for some high bitrate Blu-Ray and you don't mangle a single file I say go for it. Develop away!

Yes! If I wanted to provide a low cost client backup solution for SMB or SOHO that would be an additional selling point. I also do not want to trust my priceless data to some 3rd dev with no previous market or support experience. Using it is just asking for trouble. Would you trust a never heard of out of left field Android app protect your data?

If every little company in the world thought that we would have zero innovation. Who am I to say a little guy can't code up a DE app? Maybe MS did it wrong. I say twirl that sling shot David. Goliath is in your cross hairs!

I'm all for privateer Devs looking to find a niche product market. But I'm pretty sure MS knows when to give up on a lost cause by now. (longhorn, vista, windows mobile, drive extender)

[HSS-Dave]

An Android / WHS comparison? Your confusing me. You want it to run business apps but you don't trust it to run yourself.

[jam3ohio]

An Android / WHS comparison? Your confusing me. You want it to run business apps but you don't trust it to run yourself.

Dave--

I think he's getting at the no-reputation issue with the dev. I would be very hesitant to allow someone with no track record to manage the storage tech for my data without extensive testing. The risk is too high.

Jim

[HSS-Dave]

I won't disagree with that. The comparison was off. DE is not for business apps. I would assume any add-in these guys come up with would probably be in the same situation. All I'm saying is let them get the add-in out then you can test it and speak your peace. Give them a rope and see what they do with it.

[ikon]

I won't disagree with that. The comparison was off. DE is not for business apps. I would assume any add-in these guys come up with would probably be in the same situation. All I'm saying is let them get the add-in out then you can test it and speak your peace. Give them a rope and see what they do with it.

Yeah. Mind you, I consider my personal data every bit as important as my business data; it's not 2nd class to me. That said, let's see what they come up with.

[ImTheTypeOfGuy]

If every little company in the world thought that we would have zero innovation. Who am I to say a little guy can't code up a DE app? Maybe MS did it wrong. I say twirl that sling shot David. Goliath is in your cross hairs!

Remember, Jim is obviously a drobo guy. I keep waiting to hear he is leaving the podcast to start up a drobo podcast.

Hopefully John will keep up the MS disgust for us.